And I’ve got no problems with regular get-togethers with atheists with like-minded interests but, as in the case of churches, different atheists have different like-minded interests. Also, I’d like to repeat my objection to anything that smells of religion, like the words “church” and “services”, as it just makes it harder to counter the ever present “Atheism is just another belief system/religion” argument made by some religionists.
edited to add:ninja’d by prr.
I’ve got an idea. Why don’t all the people that don’t watch professional hockey get together and start a church?
Sorry if I misunderstood something. The point I (and others) have been trying to make is that it is valid to distinguish UU and RJ from A. UU and RJ stand for something - some shared set of values or beliefs. Whereas A simply refers to one thing that some people reject.
If someone thought UUs simply got together to talk about what they did not believe, they would be mistaken.
Also, isn’t “hard” atheism somewhat close to a religion - an unproveable belief system? My personal preference is the term “nontheist” which, as I understand it, signifies that there is no rational evidence of theism and the issue just isn’t very important.
Or - as I’ve said - I prefer terms such as Humanism (or Naturalism), which refer to things I DO believe in and value, rather than one silly thing I reject. Calling oneself atheist in one way sprt of gives credence to the believers, in that you consider their myth important enough to single it out. WHy not call yourself Awitchcraft? Avoodoo? Afairies? Adragons? Asupernatural? Of course, that last one will get pedants arguing whether a deity is or is not super-natural. And I am not interested in such efforts.
Changing the term from “atheist” to “nontheist” wouldn’t make a whit of difference to religionists making the “It’s a belief system/religion” argument, because they have no intention of debating honestly.
So far, it appears that the overall sentiment is that it’s a bad thing to have atheist churches, but there’s no consensus on what if any institution would replace it. Of course, the situation is in flux and may take a long time before the picture gets clearer.
Why do we need any institution to replace it? We are not an organized group, we have no common interests, and we have no common goals.
Not “bad.”
Unneeded, unnecessary, and uncalled for.
I do see that you define yourself as a member of a given church, and you like that a lot, and cannot understand why anyone would want to not have the type of community you have in your church. But, as has been said several times, if you take the religion out of a church (temple, mosque, sacred grove) what you have left is a social club.
I was going to say if you want community spirit and involvement, like many churches provide, but without the god factor, why not join a service organization like Lions, Rotary or Elks? Then I couldn’t think of one that didn’t have a religious orientation, even if minimized or generalized. Are there any?
How can it get any ‘clearer’ ?
Atheist is not a religion or thing you are a ‘member of’ - there is no need for an ‘atheistic church’ in the normal sense of the word - that does not mean that groups of people (atheist or not) might not form a community or ‘club’ with regular meetings to attain some goals -
In short - it does not ‘need’ nor ‘require’ an institution to replace it - people will find a way to group together as they see fit (or not - I go fishing on sundays).
And its not a ‘bad’ thing to have an atheistic ‘church’ - its a nonsensical thing - given the overall religous overtone of the word ‘church’.
I really don’t care about debating religionists. My preference for words other than atheist is personal. Hell, if I’m going to define myself in terms of what I reject, I’d rather use Aasshole. There’s a hell of a lot more evidence of their existence than any deity, and they have a lot more to do with the quality of my daily life than any particular myth.
Theism is bullshit - but it is a brand of bullshit accepted by a huge portion of my species. Okay, I accept that. So I feel the most productive use of my resources is to minimize the adverse effect their irrational beliefs have on my life. At one point in my life I derived great benefit from belonging to a UU church in which I could see that I was not alone, and that people did not conclude I was a bad person because of my nonbelief. It especially helped when I was raising kids. But now, it just doesn’t matter to me.
I agree with 90% of what you said, but I’m still going to hide my bible under my jacket when I walk into UU or a similar institution.
A major reason for creating any type of institution is to pass the values to the kids and next generation.
What do you expect that bible to do for you ?
I don’t know what thread you’ve been reading. I see a few people who’ve said they don’t like the idea, but I think most said they don’t care and argued about whether or not this is really a church. And I tried to explain to you why these things aren’t exactly atheists churches. They’re not institutions and since most atheists don’t participate in this stuff in the first place, there’s been no thought about replacing them.
All of that is true. But some general common ground can be found among atheists, particularly if you know ahead of time that they’re atheists who are looking for a community to do things like discuss ethics and charity work.
I still think that’s just a belief about one thing, not a system- but hard atheists don’t want for fervor.
I’m pretty sure a UU church will have its own Bibles. I’ve never heard of a BYOB church.
Please enlighten us-What common values do you think atheists have?
It’s just in case this “church” doesn’t have a bible.
If you visited a temple with a Jewish friend, would you bring your bible in with you there too?
For the luvva…UU isn’t an atheist church, and Christians are certainly welcome there. If you wish to dispell any ignorance you have about UU, please read this.
edited to add: And it’s not a “church”-it’s a Church. If I as an atheist can show respect to beliefs I may not hold, you can certainly do the same.
But you implied ‘concealed carry’ -
[QUOTE=pchaos]
but I’m still going to hide my bible under my jacket when I walk into UU or a similar institution
[/QUOTE]
like it was armor or something - or possibly a ‘weapon’ against the members of the UU church.
Everyone, watchout - pchaos has a bible - and he’s not afraid to use it!
No. I’d probably look around the temple to see if there was a used OT that I could borrow lying around.