I did. I did not know that you could not read.
It’s true that Communism started as an economic philosophy, but the way it was implemented in Russia and China was more like a religion. You got the icons (Uncle Joe and Mao) you got the inerrant Bible (Marx) you got the Proverbs (Little Red Book.) You got the dodging and weaving to explain why the predictions didn’t quite come true. And you got paradise coming real soon now.
I think, upon reading the differing versions of “annoy me no end” threads that it’s zealots that annoy me. The flavor doesn’t matter much.
Tris
!God, not this bullshit again - look, do a search in CS for DT’s posts and then come back and tell us what a pony he is.
I don’t think it’s quite that simple. One of the big differences between religions and lack-of-religion is that religions have organizations with specific behavior codes and rules. So while it may not affect the amount of sin in someone’s heart in some deep and meaningful way, if some otherwise-well-meaning person belongs to a church which espouses (say) sexism or racial hatred, two things I consider to be evil, then that person is more likely to act in those evil ways. Similarly, a church that particularly espouses charity and love might make a person act in those ways. An atheist or irreligious person will have neither influence.
So religion as a concept doesn’t make people do evil things, but it provides the framework in which particular religions, or religious leaders, can lead to evil.
(This is where someone like Der Trihs would claim that even a religion that espouses “good” things like love and peace and charity is evil because it’s controlling people’s minds… which has perhaps at least a kernel of truth to it, depending on the situation, but it outside the scope of what I’m discussing here.)
(Which is kind of where the whole communism=religion thing comes from, imho. It fills the role that religion would fill of being an ideology that informs and directs behavior.)
All right, perhaps I jumped the gun there. I still say, however, when it comes to religion and/or politics, he’s completely incoherant. There’s no point of having a discussion with him.
Back to the subject: Triskadecamus pretty much said it all: atheist zealots, religious zealots, political, etc all suck.
good god. Must we remind you of your OP?
So why the fuck is it a strawman to respond to your assine OP?
I never claimed I had mathematical proof or that one could exist. I meant “do the math” as in “factor in the positive impact on human population as well as the negative”.
If you want a make a case that my argument is wrong, provide convincing reasons why.
also, it’s asinine
The positive effect is, what ? I see no reason to believe that the occasional good things done in the name of religion wouldn’t be done as much or more often in a non-religious world. The positive things, unlike ( many of ) the negative, have reasons to do them that have nothing to do with religion. And the few studies I’ve every heard of comparing the ethics and altruism of people by religious belief, showed the unbelievers coming out ahead. Which, no doubt, is why such studies are nearly unknown.
Libraries could be filled up with the evils done in the name of religion, both past and present. It has twisted our culture into a hate filled, malignant thing. What good could religion do that outweighs all that ? What could it do that outweighs it causing or supporting slavery, the Holocaust, homophobia, the oppression of women, the abuse of animals, the crusades, book burning, censorship, the divine right of kings, the Thirty Years War, the constant bloodshed in the Middle East, witch burning, the suppression/torture and murder of unbelievers, the genocide of the Native Americans, anti-abortionism, opposition to stem cell and general life extension research, opposition to birth control, the attempt to ignore AIDs, and on and on ? There isn’t enough good in the world to outweigh all the evil commited because of religion.
Atheists aren’t organized and they only sit back and watch?
Got news for you… I can hardly navigate a street market or fair in Seattle without some Atheist chasing me down the sidewalk trying to shove a tri-fold pamphlet into my hand discussing how the earth isn’t 5,000 years old. Trying to get me to come back to their booth so they can tell me about how god is a myth and how I’m being abused by my church. Gimmee a frickin’ break.
Generally I tell 'em no thanks I already know the earth is millions of years old… and they should move out of my way cuz I’m heading for the Catholic Services booth, they sell GOOD beer for CHEAP! 
(no, I’m not catholic either, but they DO have good beer :p)
All of which compares how in terms of organisation and proselytising factor many Xtian groups?
You are talking about a couple of people operating in particular locations where “local colour” (ie non-mainstream weirdness) is the usual thing. Contrast that to millions upon millions of people in gigantic well funded legally structured organisations, some of which have proselytising as a major policy goal and which are or can be at the centre of mainstream society.
Get some sense of proportion.
Oh I am huh?
Funny, I’ve seen it in New York, Los Angeles, Denver, Chicago, Miami, pretty much every major city I’ve visited for any length of time where I’ve had a chance to visit cultural or city events.
Granted, my home town is Seattle (born and raised here), and Seattle does tend to be pretty secular and unconventional at times, I’m well aware of that. It’s said we have more atheists here per capita than anywhere else in the nation.
I was making an attempt at some tongue in cheek… if I wasn’t, I wouldn’t have mentioned beer.
My own church doesn’t evangelize or proselytize, it’s patently against everything we believe. We’re not alone in that belief either. It’s the loud groups that get the attention, but don’t kid yourself into thinking this aggressive behavior is the MO of most people who call themselves christians. (which is a word I’m not always sure I like considering it’s horribly vague and describes very little about what a person or small group believes)
I’m calling bullshit on this. What groups are doing this? Cite?
I’d like a cite on this, too. Said by who, because I have never heard anybody say this.
Yes, yes you are. A few atheists zealots, who stand out by their very weirdness, are in a whole other league to large proselytising Xtian churches.
I’m not. I never said most. Quit with the strawman. And when you say loud, you mean loud, powerful and highly influential. Heck, there’d be more JW’s (who belong to a church which proselytises like it’s members breath) in your average town than there’d be atheist zealots chasing you down the streets in the whole US.
Plus what Czarcasm said. It’s been a while since I’ve been in the States but I never saw this atheist zealotry ever, in any city. Nor in debates on this topic up hill and down dale on these boards have I seen anyone but you make this allegation about rabid atheists shoving pamphlets in every major city. You’re speaking crap.
That observation may help us understand some of the negatives that occur within organized religion and other groups but it doesn’t make communism a religion. {not that you’re saying it is} It’s simply an observation of similarities among social groups, Yes?
What was this thread about again?
“Atheist zealots”, which means any atheist that points out the obvious, instead of pretending that absolute nonsense is something other than absolute nonsense. There is no honest, rational way of speaking about religion without insulting it, and it’s followers. Because religion is stupid, and it’s destructive, and it’s obviously so.
Bingo!! and funny too.