Thanks! Just wanted to be thorough 
I think patriotism is downright harmful. It would be tough to have wars without the idea that one’s country is particularly special or excellent. You can only place a value on your country in relation to other countries, so the more highly you regard your own nation, the less regard you have for the rest of the world, necessarily.
Not surprisingly, I’m indifferent to the flag.
Are there any positives to being Patriotic?
Your conclusion is based on the assumption that there is a limited about of “regard” available. Does this mean that, at the moment that I started loving my wife, I started caring less about the rest of humanity? And that the more deeply I love my wife, the less I care about everyone else?
(FWIW, I think that patriotism can be harmful, in the same way that drinking alcoholic beverages *can * be harmful. But, both of them can be beneficial.)
Anyway, to answer the OP, I don’t believe in god, and I don’t consider myself to be patriotic. Also, I have no reverence for my country’s flag. (It’s pretty, though …)
Sure. For certain instances and/or individuals, patriotism can be a good thing. On balance, over time, it does more harm than good, however.
I think your analogy could use some work. At the moment you fell in love with your wife, were you not less concerned with your previous girlfriends?
Besides, because of your love for your wife, are you not more interested in her well-being than other people’s, even if there’s no rational basis for the discrepancy? If it were up to you, wouldn’t you be inclined to give her a job she wanted over a more qualified applicant, thus hurting the other applicant and the company you work for?
It’s the same kind of thing with patriotism. People tend not to think of it in explicitly this way, but they’ll usually accept two units of Harm to some other country if it means one unit of Good for their own. They’ll give the good of their own countrymen extra consideration, when all people should have equal standing.
Not any less concerned than I was the moment before I started loving my wife. I was not involved with any of my previous girlfriends at the time that I started dating my wife. (BTW, I didn’t say anything about “the moment I *fell * in love”.)
Yes, but I am not less interested in other people’s well being than I was before I started loving my wife.
Interesting. Tthat exact situation came up and I decided that it would be better to give the job to someone else who was better qualified, and things turned out better for everyone concerned, including my wife.
Do you think that’s part of the definition of patriotism?
Often, this sentiment is based on some direct personal relationship with the countrymen, and not necessarily because they happen to be citizens of the same country.
Anyway, as I said, I am not patriotic, nor do I know anyone who is overtly patrtiotic, so perhaps I don’t really understand what it means to patriotic. To use another analogy :eek: : My understanding of patriotism is similar to that of an atheist who has had little if any direct experience with theists and who can’t understand what it means to believe to god.
Most companies would frown on your being in a position to hire your own wife, for the obvious reason that you couldn’t be expected to be impartial. That you chose another candidate makes you an exception to the rule.
Do you not think that’s sometimes a consequence of patriotism?
[Moderator Underoos On]This is the last time you will be told that this is a poll and not a debate. No getting the last word in, no clarifying the mis-perceptions of others. If you’ve said your piece, move on.[/Moderator Underoos Onn]
Here is an example of a poll. See how the people address the OP directly instead of arguing with each other? See how they are able to get across their ideas in a single post, then move on?
I dunno…this wasn’t specifically started as a poll. There were a number of “starter” questions that lend themselves to deeper discussion. Is the OP complaining? Seems like a civil exchange that involves complex feelings. I’m jus’ sayin’.
That was exactly my reaction.
The OP didn’t exactly lend itself to simplistic answers, and the way it was worded seemed to make clear that there were nuances that might benefit from further discussion. And it’s not as if the ongoing discussion prevents other interested parties from weighing in with their opinions.
I was also curious, Czarcasm, whether you were singling Wee Bairn out, as evidenced by your quoting of his post, despite the fact that other posters had also continued adding debate-like statements after your original caution?
ETA:
Are you seriously comparing this thread with the one you linked as an example of a poll? The OP of that thread stated a position about the importance of the bible, and expressed surprise that some people could understand the faith without it. She then asked a simple question: “So, Catholic Dopers, what say ye? Do you read your Bible?”
Compare that with the OP of this thread, which offers a much more open-ended set of questions. He gives his own opinion about patriotism and flags, then asks: “Anyone care to enlighten me? What do you think of reverence for flags? Patriotism generally? Do you think ceremonious ‘proper disposal’ is a waste of time and effort? Or what?”
Since it’s a poll, let me be counted;)
Agnostic here. Like some have posted, the entire concept of “loving my country” is something I can’t really get a concrete grasp of. I’m glad I live in one of the many countries with freedom and tolerance and relative wealth— pure luck, and I’m grateful.
And I agree that patriotism and religion are very similar. They are irrational beliefs that when manifested in logos and signs and flags serve only to demark the us vs. them mindset, an all-too human trait that went from beng useful to mostly harmful at some point way back in our evolution. But I treat the two things the same way. I’m happy for you if it gives you pleasure, and I’ll do my best to show you respect, but please don’t ask me to play along.
Agnostic/Buddhist-ish checking in, to say I fly the flag properly and suchlike for two reasons:
- Because it’s a tangible little ritual I can do that makes me think of the several people in my life, friends and relatives, who’ve been in the service in varying capacities and varying times.
- Because dammit, SOMEONE has to be flying the flag because they’re feeling “I’m proud of my nation’s leadership in the biomedical sciences” and stuff like that.
Granted, I admit to being a support the troops and abhor the war Democrat, but I have too many friends who’re in Iraq and don’t know why but who take their oaths too seriously to resign to be anti-soldier at this time.
Hmmm…I thought the US was woefully “dark ages” about its attitudes about biomedical science. The SCIENTISTS rock, but the government blows moose udders in hell on this subject.
I’d fly a little microscope.
As it happens, I have several Christian symbols in my home, inherited from Catholic family members. I treat them respectfully because they meant something to the people who once owned them, even if they don’t mean that to me. Treating the objects with respect is a way of showing respect for my memories of them.
It’s much the same with flags. I treat them with respect, not reverence but respect, because they are a symbol that means something to other people. Treating that symbol with respect is a way of showing respect for my fellow humans. I’m not likely to ever go through the elaborate ritual of cutting an American flag twice before burning it - but I won’t toss it on top of the compost heap, either.
Incidentally, I once asked a Norwegian military dude if there were rules about the disposal of the Norwegian flag (visual aid). He said it was very simple: rip it apart at the seams. At that point it was no longer a flag, but a pile of red, white, and blue bunting. And as such there could no longer be anything disrespectful about burning it, throwing it in the trash, using it to patch your jeans, or lining a birdcage with the stuff.
And just because I can’t resist mentioning it, Scandinavians love to hang little garlands of their national flags on Christmas trees. I was so happy when I finally found little garlands of the US flag, so we now have a tangible symbol of our bi-national Yuletide celebrations 
I’ve always been surprised and amused at the reverance that Americans show their flag.
It’s a piece of cloth, folks. Patriotism is something else again and nothing to do with cheap symbolism.
Religion? I guess I’d describe myself as a sceptical agnostic.