[QUOTE=elfkin477]
The show ended in 2006, but I’m just now watching the final season of Strong Medicine. One of the new principal characters does something I find surprising - before each operation he prays aloud that God will guide him and bring the patient through the procedure and restore them to perfect health. The patients all seem to be under by the time the prayer is said.
I’m Christian, and this strikes me as a little odd. A silent prayer I can readily understand, but saying it out loud? That seems to make it a little more official, I guess, and it strikes me as something of a lack of confidence in their skill too that I’d rather they not be vocal about.
Given my own reaction, I wonder what an atheist would feel about having a prayer said over them before an operation. Would it rub you the wrong way if you discovered it had been done, or do you see it as mostly harmless?
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Meh, lots of people have a “magic feather”. If the doctor’s magic feather is to say a prayer, that’s fine by me.
The idea that such a prayer helps to calm the surgeon’s nerves in much the same way as a lucky charm or baseball superstition is not very reassuring to me. I’m not keen on the idea of being operated on by someone whose game can be affected by the presence of a rabbit’s foot or the order in which they put their socks on.
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Whatever gets him through it. I’ve only ever done surgeries on animals, but an extra cup of coffee, a sore arm from painting the previous day, or nerves from an interview can all noticeably affect my performance. I’d let the guy get ANY edge he could get; cutting into living tissue effectively is no joke, and I’ve met quite a few people who are never able to do it well, despite repeated tries. I’ll take the surgeon who cares enough to get himself into the zone beforehand, even if it’s a silly ritual.
Yes, I know that it isn’t all that likely he’d do those things; but that’s why I’d be ‘nervous’ and not ‘fleeing in panic’. Well, ‘crawling away in panic’, under the circumstances.
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Is there a word for people with an irrational fear of religion?
[QUOTE=Vihaga]
Whatever gets him through it. I’ve only ever done surgeries on animals, but an extra cup of coffee, a sore arm from painting the previous day, or nerves from an interview can all noticeably affect my performance. I’d let the guy get ANY edge he could get; cutting into living tissue effectively is no joke, and I’ve met quite a few people who are never able to do it well, despite repeated tries. I’ll take the surgeon who cares enough to get himself into the zone beforehand, even if it’s a silly ritual.
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You say that now, but will you really be so complacent when they wheel you into surgery, and the surgeon is staring off into space, fingering a scalpel handle while swaying from side to side and uttering a high-pitched monotone whine interspersed with sharp cries of “Looky-loo! Looky-loo!” and the anesthesiologist smiles and tells you not to worry about it because “that’s just what he does?”
[QUOTE=Terrifel]
You say that now, but will you really be so complacent when they wheel you into surgery, and the surgeon is staring off into space, fingering a scalpel handle while swaying from side to side and uttering a high-pitched monotone whine interspersed with sharp cries of “Looky-loo! Looky-loo!” and the anesthesiologist smiles and tells you not to worry about it because “that’s just what he does?”
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Not to inject unnecessary seriousness into this image or anything, but in my experience the surgeon isn’t there when you get wheeled in. He shows up after you’re put under.
[QUOTE=Lobsang]
Actually I take it back. Someone can still learn the craft of Surgery or Doctory and be good at it, while at the same time believing in God. So I shouldn’t be concerned for my safety if a theist is using his skills to fix me.
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Seriously, I hope you really feel that way, just in case you ever do need surgery. I would imagine that, just like in the general population, a lot of surgeons believe in God.
[QUOTE=MGibson]
Is there a word for people with an irrational fear of religion?
Marc
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Please try to remember that is a poll for atheists in IMHO. If you, or others, wish to debate religion or the lack thereof, take it to Great Debates.
[QUOTE=Priceguy]
Not to inject unnecessary seriousness into this image or anything, but in my experience the surgeon isn’t there when you get wheeled in. He shows up after you’re put under.
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Oh, fair enough. But then what if you’re in recovery afterward, and someone offers to show you a video of the procedure? And in the video, the surgeon arrives (having not been there before you’re put under because that’s not what they do), and gets all scrubbed up and is ready to make the first incision, then announces: “But first…” Then they start wiggling in place while crooning, “Who’s a weasel? Whooooo’s a happy little weasel? Happy, happy little weasel!”
I am forced to question whether anyone’s confidence would actually remain intact if they learned that such a person had just performed life-or-death surgery on them. Some here have claimed that they wouldn’t be troubled in the slightest by any such ritual; no, not in the least, whatever gets the surgeon in the zone, they could dress the patient in a clown suit, it’s all good.
I’m not questioning anyone’s sincerity, but I also think that one’s perspective might probably shift more toward thoughts of a potential lawsuit if confronted with actual video evidence that the surgeon’s first reaction upon entering surgery was: “What’s this? Nurse! This patient isn’t dressed in a clown suit! Dammit, fetch my kit of surgically sterile clown paint! You know I don’t feel comfortable cutting into people who aren’t clowns.”
I’d also be a bit anxious if I learned that my surgeon felt the need to request magical assistance from his invisible friend before operating.
“Before I begin the first incision, I’d like to briefly pause and summon my childhood companion Mister Tinkle to assist. He’s been at my side all through medical school, so I assure you all that he is qualified. Also, though he is an anthropomorphic squirrel, he is of course intangible; so his large fluffy tail will not affect sterile conditions during surgery. Of course, he likes to dress in little surgical scrubs anyway, but that’s just a ritual of his. It helps him get in the zone.”
[QUOTE=Terrifel]
I’d also be a bit anxious if I learned that my surgeon felt the need to request magical assistance from his invisible friend before operating.
“Before I begin the first incision, I’d like to briefly pause and summon my childhood companion Mister Tinkle to assist. He’s been at my side all through medical school, so I assure you all that he is qualified. Also, though he is an anthropomorphic squirrel, he is of course intangible; so his large fluffy tail will not affect sterile conditions during surgery. Of course, he likes to dress in little surgical scrubs anyway, but that’s just a ritual of his. It helps him get in the zone.”
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Oh, that’s beautiful.
[QUOTE=Omega Glory]
If I was under at the time, it wouldn’t bother me. If I was consious, it would.
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I seem to be the only person who feels the opposite.
If I were awake, I would be disconcerted; then I would ask myself how I would feel if s/he sprinkled a pentacle in salt around the scalpel before the operation, and I would relax about it. (Fowl necrophilia would not occur to me.)
But if I were under anesthesia and found out about it later, I would be enraged. Just blinded by rage. I am getting angry just thinking about it.
No, that’s just wrong. I am unconscious, I am completely vulnerable; s/he may cut open my body, fill me with strangers’ blood and strange chemicals, remove and/or add various parts. That is professional and acceptable and I contracted for that.
Prayer? That is personal, and as such is a complete violation. You don’t do something personal with someone who is unconscious. That is wrong. That is just wrong.
I forgot to mention that before my last surgery, whatever fabulous drug they gave me in pre-op completely wiped my memory of actually being taken back and officially put under. They could have done anything (“Bring in the sacrificial goat!”) and I wouldn’t know about it even if it had been done while I was technically conscious.
j666, what if the prayer was something along the lines of “God, help to be the best surgeon I can possibly be” as opposed to “God, heal this patient.” Would that make any difference for you?
j666, what if the prayer was something along the lines of “God, help to be the best surgeon I can possibly be” as opposed to “God, heal this patient.” Would that make any difference for you?
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Other than reflection that I don’t want a surgeon who needs to pray for skill? No.
Prayer is personal. I don’t want people getting personal around me when I’m unconscious.
I would be equally disturbed by Christian, Jewish, or Islamic prayers. Prayers in religions with which I am less familiar would bother me less (that might be indicative of a nasty little bigotry on my part).
I doubt a silent prayer would offend me. That would be entirely different.
I also wouldn’t mind a prayer over the instruments.
