Athiest Dopers would you be mad if your kid found God?

Great Debates
61

I’ve seen this from both directions, with my parents being atheist or agnostic, and me being now atheist.

When I was about 12 years old, I decided to become baptised and confirmed into the Anglican Church: I suspect it was because every one else I knew was doing the same thing. My parents were fine – they said I hadn’t been baptised because they wanted me to make my own mind up about these things, but they were supportive of my decision.

My religious phase only lasted a short time, and most of my life I’ve been a strongly convinced atheist. But I married a Catholic, in a Catholic church, and promised that my kids could be brought up Catholic. I even go to mass 2 or 3 times a year with my wife (Easter and Christmas), though of course I don’t take communion.

Our kids (aged 18 to 26) are now all grown up, and we’ve let them make their own decisions about religion. At least one is a practising Catholic, and one other has experimented with various beliefs, particularly Wicca – and I’m happy to support them in whatever decisions they make, as long as they are not positively harmful to themselves or others.

62

Atheist stepdad here. Does that count? :slight_smile:

My boys have both attended church with their bio-dad. He belongs to an end-times arch-conservative baptist church. If you know who Arnold Murray is (televangelist), you know that church. Very fire and brimstone, OT, no shellfish or pork, and they believe this Murray guy is to be one of the two ‘witnesses’ of the end times…In other words, batshit crazy.

My oldest has told me that he’s basically there for the food. He’ll believe anything you tell him as long as you feed him at the end of it. No firm convictions, always the path of least resistance. He’ll make a good politician some day.

My middle son, however, disturbs me. He aspires to be a zoologist (he’s a frickin genius), but he is being fed all sorts of things about ‘not making plans, for the kingdom is nigh’ type stuff. He also is told that the salvation of all of his friends and family are his responsibility. So he is always sad. Hell, he’s worried about MY parents because they are Catholic. More than once, he has come back from a church meeting to our house and cried himself to sleep over it.

As I said, I’m an atheist, though I’ve never really made an issue of it to them. Especially around here, where them mentioning to their friends could have serious results for our family. I will believe when I have reason to, not before. I’m sure that if God i worried about me, he’ll sit me down and have a talk with me before the whole hellfire thing. If he decides I’m not worth the time, well, I don’t have any regrets about how I’ve lived my life.

I try to be supportive- I’ve never once poo-pooed his faith (I know that it would be seen as an attack on his dad as well, and I don’t do that). I just try to reassure him that no one has all of the answers, it’s okay to not know, it’s okay to doubt, and that that I love him no matter what.

But I worry. His belief does not seem to make him happy. He’s a good kid, but he’d be one without God in his life too. And I’m afraid that his need to believe will turn him away from confronting the facts that are part of a formal education, and he will end up never leaving Arkansas, never graduating high school, and never rising above menial labor, just like his dad.

It bugs me the more because their mom and I set such an easy path for them to follow. They know that they are loved no matter what, and that we would die to protect them. All that we ask in return is a good showing in school, incidental help around the house, and manners at the table. They can believe whatever they like- but I wish that it made them happy. That is does not is a constant concern for me. I can only hope that they will grow out of it.

63

If my kid actually found God, I’d be mostly just extremely surprised… :smiley: And I’d suggest that God hide well if It doesn’t want to be treated like out cat (i.e., loved half to death!) :smack: (but then, I’m mostly talking about the 7-Y.O.-s).

On a slightly more serious note, although I am a HARD atheist, not only would I not mind, I have actively taken my children to both Jewish and Catholic religious services. Why? So they can understand what other people believe in; so they can enjoy the cultural (and othen aesthetic!) experience; so they can think for themselves.

I trust them to reach the same conclusion that I have: That there is no God. And I certainly admit to trying to help them reach that conclusion… But through explanation and discussion, not by Parental Fiat. And if they reach a different conclusion, well at least they will have reached their own conclusions. That is more important in my book than thinking the same way I do. And it virtually guarantees that, whether or not they become religious, they will still think for themselves, and let no leader - religious or otherwise - lead them anywhere by the nose

Dani

64

Two important questions that have surprisingly been ignored so far and are directed at the OP (where’d he/she go?):

[ol]
[li]Define religion (big 5 - Christianity, Jeudaism, Islam, Hindu, Buddhist; or only the first 3; or any belief system without a scientific foundation that asks people to accept things on faith without proof or reason?)[/li][li]How old is the child/children concerned?[/li][/ol]

With those in mind, I can say without hesitation that I would be extremely disappointed if one of my children accepted anything on faith alone. However, their age and maturity level would mitigate my reaction. A young child would likely have it explained to them why things need to be questioned and how religions fail to answer all the skeptics, and would be outright forbidden to participate anymore. An older child (mid or late teens) would be questioned on why they accepted things without questioning properly, and how they could accept things without legitimate answers, but might be allowed to continue attending so long as they were willing to listen to reason.

Personally, I was raised Catholic, had absolutely no bad experiences with it other than boredom, and gave it up at a young age because I realized that I could never accept anything on faith alone. I hope and pray that when I have children that will grow up the same way, and will be sorely disappointed if they don’t (which has nothing to do with loving them, that is unconditional).

65

I encourage my 8 year old daughter to “question everything, including me.”

Last weekend, in an attempt to spend some hard earned birthday money, she bought a book called “What is Heaven?”, or some such title, by Maria Schriver of all people. My wife was somewhat taken aback. “You’d think there’d be another book we could also get that would have more of an… alternative viewpoint,” she said. I replied that I thought this book would do just fine. I encouraged my daughter to read it wholly and thoroughly (though, admittedly, I was somewhat worried.) The next day, my daughter says she dislikes the book and wants to return it. I forget her exact words, but basically, she wasn’t buying it. (I’m so proud. :smiley: )

Now, I’m worried (no, actually, looking forward to) the people at the bookstore thinking, or even accusing me of denying my daughter freedom of thought. :smack:

BTW, I too have had absolutely no bad personal religious experiences; just useless personal religious experiences. I simply feel it’s restraint is doing humankind, and the world in general, more harm than good.

66

i.e., she wasn’t buying the myth, as well as the book itself.

67

I can only offer my own experience.

When I found religion in High School, my ex-Mormon mother was fit to be tied. We got in endless arguments that seriously strained our relationship, and drove me further toward religion out of sheer defiance.

My ex-Christian Scientist father, on the other hand, constantly reassured her that if were left to explore it on my own, eventually my rational mind would win out and I would move past that phase.

It took the better part of two years, but my Dad was right, in the end.

We were raised atheist. Unfortunately, we were also raised to have contempt, rather than respect, for people who held other beliefs. This sort of indoctrination is destined to have unfortunate results. The children mingle with people who hold other beliefs, and find out they are just human, after all, which leads to curiosity about the religion that engendered such hatred in the parents.

That’s why I am agnostic, and plan to instill my children with open-minded, agnostic values. I will especially caution them, however, to heed the advice of Andre Gide:

68

If it makes him happy, I couldn’t care less if my son found Jesus on a pogo-stick. As it is, he’s been brought up in a Catholic environment by my ex-wife and I have made no objections whatsoever – but by the same token, when he spends time with me (summers) he’s given to asking me all sorts of questions and poking holes in all of the teachings he’s recieved. I answer as truthfully and directly as I know how and refer him to books when I am not sure of a particular reply. Carl Sagan’s “Demon Haunted World” has become a favorite of ours.

So while I have no objection per-se, I do feel it was/is my duty to counter the religious indoctrination and ensuing gaps he’s been given to work with, and then let him make up his mind.

At fourteen, I am happy to say that he’s quite the informed skeptic. So, should he find “god” I might be forced to take a much harder look my own self :wink:

69

I currently struggle with the idea of my kids finding God.

After being raised Catholic, I eventually come to the conclusion that I don’t believe in a god. When I married my wife, I knew that she attended Lutheran church. I knew she had strong religious beliefs. After we had our first child, I found that I underestimated her beliefs. :smack:

After a few heated debates, I gave her the okay to bring our kid to church with her on Sundays. I joined them on occasion. I had my doubts as whether this would be helpful or harmful for our son. I figured it was harmless enough.

Fast forward to the present… My wife brings our four-year old to church and Sunday school every week. We now have slew of children bible stories around the house. My wife plays a Christian kiddy tape when she drives him to daycare each week. My wife now prays with him before every meal and before bedtime. My wife wants to start a Christian daycare/electuary school and enroll our son (over my dead body).

How has this “education” affected my son’s behavior? He enjoys singing songs about Jesus’ love. He talks occasionally about how god loves him and Jesus loves him. Other than having to listen to this dribble, I see no harm.

I feel extremely overwhelmed by all the god-speak in my home. At four years old, I took almost everything literally. I would image the same is true for my son. I try teaching my son to ask questions and to see multiple viewpoints. I do this rather subtlety rather than preaching. I feel like I’m losing the battle.

I appreciate some messages that religion teaches:

You are loved, love others, help those in need, we can achieve our goals with conviction, community is good

Other messages I could do without, include:

Obey the church and bible because we say so
Christians are special because they’re going to heaven (damn everyone else)
Sin - people are inherently flawed, beg for forgiveness
Something is wrong with people without faith

What’s a daddy to do? I would support my son if he chooses to believe in God when he can think critically when he’s older. I have a problem with what seems like brainwashing a four year old.

I am thankful that my wife attends a Lutheran church and not a fundie one.

70

I’m rather apalled that people in this thread believe that rational thought and religion cannot coexist. People are suggesting that rational thought only exists in the absence of religion, which is not always true.

Not the first time in history it was suggested people of particular religion(s) were inferior intellectually :rolleyes:

71

Incubus: Not inferior. A bit more naïve, I’d say. Believing in a novel that was written a long time ago, by some fantasy writers, is like believing in the tales of Hans Christian Anderson.

Not inferior, just childlike.

72

No, but people like YOU are the ones who make all of the people in this thread call everyone religious “stupid,” “not intellectual,” “lacking critical thinking skills,” etc.

Frankly, I find that so many people think that way sad. It is a very uneducated approach to religion in general, close minded, prejudiced, and generally against the so-called “intellectualism” that you supposedly stand for.

73

Frankly, I find the kind of thinking that all religion is “believing in a novel that was written a long time ago” is child-like. It shows your ignorance on the subject to a great degree.

I suggest you step outside of your box and study more about what religion is, not what Christianity is.

For people of “critical thinking,” y’all follow the “religion is bad because Christianity is bad because the Bible isn’t literally true” line pretty narrowly.

74

Did I mention the bible? *:: frantic search:: *. Nope.

Frankly, I find your assumptions about what someone might, or might not know about religion, exactly fitting to your age. :smiley:

75

Critical thinking: application of reasoning and symbolic logic (if/then, either-or, etc) and the scientific method to premises and arguments, thus using sound and valid facts to determine truths. A rough definition that someone will likely rip apart, but good enough to start.

So, Zagadka, what is religion? Dictionary.com says that it is:

Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Seems like a good definition, but if you have another please offer it.

Ok, so where in there is the conflict? It is in the acceptance (read: “Belief in…”) of something unproven, unfounding, un-scientifically defined. No one has discovered any god, no one has proven ghosts, leperchauns, fairies or anything else to be real, so the only legitimate skeptic’s viewpoint is to wait and see. Not necessarily say that they don’t and can’t exist, just that they haven’t been proven. This is where the critical thinking criticism comes in.

If you have another argument, by all means bring it forward.

76

I should note that this part of the definition is actually reconcilable with critical thinking, but is probably also the rarest definition of someone religious.

77

The distinction between his assumptions and yours is that his are correct (accusations of immaturity aside). You were obviously either referring to the bible ( or intended for people to think that’s what you were referring to). Zadagka’s observation seemed astute enough.

What exactly did you mean by this? (The “what religion is, not what Christianity is” bit)

78

I mean that most fundamentalist atheists mean “Christianity” when they say “religion”

79

Hey if the kids faith can withstand playing 20 questions with dear old dad then they have thought it through well enough to satisfy me. Believing things that are not demonstrably false doesn’t bother me. Believing things that ARE demonstrably false, that gets to me a bit more. In any case I don’t mind the conclusions they come to, as long as the process was reasonably fair and analytical.

Enjoy,
Steven

80

Can we head off a potentially rancorous debate and say ‘most fundamentalist atheists mean “fundamentalist Christianity” when they say “religion”’? :slight_smile: