Did anyone else think of John Carter of Mars when the first (6 legged) animal appeared?
Just saw the movie on Christmas day. My short summary is: Great, ground-breaking visuals - Same old tired SciFi story. Five minutes into the movie you already know how it is going pan out. The evil Americans … err, I mean humans … will dick around with diplomacy for a while but in the end will have to use their big guns. The wily natives will use mysticism and native war techniques to defeat them. Leather clad natives and magic - how did that every come to equal science fiction?
My dream is that one day they will make a $100 million SciFi movie and will budget more than 50 bucks for the story.
I don’t know why “you know how it is going to pan out” is such a big criticism. Sure, if the movie were especially plot-driven and it was meant to keep the audience in suspense, this would be a big complaint. But there’s some weird post-Sixth Sense era of moviemaking where we demand all of our blockbusters have twists and turns.
When I watch a movie about a great historical battle, I don’t say “blah, this sucks, I already know what’s going to happen”, so why here? The plot is fine - simple, predictable, but logical, without any significant holes, and it drives the story adequately. The movie is about immersing you in the experience, letting you experience the awe that Jake does as he explores the world and the culture of the Na’vi. This is not a movie that needs unpredictability or sudden twists - the plot is simple but appropriate.
Most people don’t really want complex plots that make you think. Some do, but some of the ones most loudly bitching about the simple plot of Avatar are the ones so totally perplexed by the interesting and complex plot of The Matrix. It’s very amusing.
It’s not the lack of a twist that is a problem, it’s that this was storytelling 101. Seriously, this is the kind of thing someone would bring in to a creative writing class; it’s basic, crude and blunt as a story and very little complexity was injected into the world they created. You don’t need to have a “WOAH! You mean he was a ghost the whole time???” big reveal at the end for something to not be formulaic.
If the Navi had been something a little more deep than noble savages and the humans there more than just glass-chewing hard asses who take out pussies like that for breakfast/hand rubbing corporate pigs who can’t look up from the profit and loss sheet long enough to actually listen to their top science advisor that would have made it more interesting and less formulaic. Had the story been something more complex than “white man realises his culture is wrong and joins the gaia loving [insert name of people/species here]” trope that would have been interesting.
Again, it’s not that the plot was straightforward - after all Lord of the Rings is a fairly straight forward good against evil hero epic - it’s that is was basic in the way that something like, say, Watchmen, isn’t.
I agree that I’m not quite sure why Avatar’s story is being lambasted as “simple,” for a couple of reasons. One, I don’t see why being “simple” is inherently a negative; some movies work better with a more intriciate plot, others do not (Up is an incredably simple story, and yet its told wonderfully). Two, there are myriad films where the exact same complaint at myriad other films.
That said, I do think Matrix’s plot had more to it than Avatar’s. Again, I’m not saying that as if it were fundamentally better story wise, but I do think it’s being a bit disingenuous to say there was no more to Matrix’s story than Avatar.
A plot doesn’t have to be overy complex to be good. Simple and straightforward can be good, too.
The problem with this particular plot is that the tropes were stuck to with such rigidity as to induce a certain amount of eye-rolling in a good portion of the viewing audience.
I think a movie can get away with some trope recycling. Indeed, a certain amount is probably inevitable. What it can’t get away with, I think, is total trope rigidity, where practically every major plot element is recycled.
I wonder if the evil company in Avatar is a subsidiary of the evil company in Aliens.
It would truly kick ass if it was the future of the Hudson’s Bay Company.
Are they really a homage? I mean, if youre trying to write somewhat realistic sci-fi then the inside and outside of a futuristic military ship will look like, well, a military ship. I dont know why we associate a very clean design (think Star Trek) with future spacecraft. If anything, we would still be doing things in a modular way with replaceable parts, easy to access ports, and things like big doors and large rooms will be a luxury. Pretty costs money, takes space, and gets in the way of real work.
Just saw it last night, in 2D. I was expecting 3D, as this particular theater has shown 3D movies in the past, so I’m not sure why they didn’t go 3D with this one. Still, I was impressed.
The Na’vi: I thought they looked cool, and I especially liked the fact that the women were all small-breasted instead of having gratuitous big hooters. And this made sense, logically/evolutionally; when you’re leaping amongst the flora you don’t want the unfortunate gyroscopic effect of your boobs going one way while you’re trying to leap the other way and throwing off your trajectory
As soon as I saw that, I thought, “Hey, it’s Nagrand!” from World of Warcraft’s first expansion, The Burning Crusade. (Sorry, my flying dragon’s wing kind of got in the way in the screenshot, but that’s a floating hunk or earth with perpetual waterfalls you see there.) Of course, in Nagrand it’s more of an “a wizard did it” situation, i.e. it’s magic and has no scientific explanation.
Yes, they are intentionally meant to be similar to the ships in Aliens. I missed the first couple of minutes so I didn’t actually see the ships, but this is what I understand from some inside info. They are meant to imply that it’s the same universe and the same company.
:eek: No way! He didn’t spend enough time on showing us the wonders of Pandora. “too much” Does. Not. Compute.
Wait, I was saying the opposite. As a certified Matrix fanatic, yes, I agree, it is a very complex and interesting plot, whereas Avatar’s is a simple and serviceable plot. Both are fine with me, they work for their respective movies.
I was saying that, reading through various Matrix threads I was struck by how some people bitched about how complex and convoluted the plot of The Matrix (taking in all 3 movies as one) is, yet turn around and also bitch about how simple the plot of Avatar is. I’m not naming names, but it seems silly. You (not you RB, a “them” you) complain about a simple plot in Avatar, but then whine about how The Matrix is [whiny little girl]too complex[/whiny little girl]. Make up your frickin’ mind which kind of plot you want, or take what each movie gives you and work within that framework.
I thought it was a beautiful moving picture. Literally. Very pretty, but I’ve been inspired to deeper thoughts by lesser art, so…that’s not necessarily a criticism, but it doesn’t vault it to the heights of what film is capable of.
Thinking over it, one thing that bugged me was that 150 years in the future they were all wearing stuff they could buy from Old Navy today. The computer stuff was handled a lot better - anyone notice when one of the scientists moved a display of data from a fixed screen to a portable one? That was awesome. But in a lot of ways if you put this plot into a modern jungle it would work just as well.
The info I read said that Cameron has had this story in his head for a long time, and was waiting for technology to get to the point where he could make it. The problem isn’t not spending enough on the script, it might be more about the idea being too locked in to edit.
If you review the material and production details that have been floating around the 'net (including and especially the “Project 800” script treatment) it appears that the editing resulted in the story becoming more simplistic over time. I’m speculating, but I would guess that the plot was simplified, and the characters were made more single-dimensional, in order to ensure that the film was financially successful enough to justify continued exploration of the universe.
Not that I am saying that result necessarily follows from simplification, but take a look at other blockbuster properties in recent years and it stands to reason.
The only thing that is unusual about that to me is the persistence of the stark anti-interventionist, anti-military-industrial-complex message. Maybe that’s where the notoriously stubborn Cameron decided to make his stand, or maybe it was seen as a box office advantage overseas and therefore allowed to stay.
Again, I loved the movie and I am glad that he will be able to make more, and the collateral material makes me think that this epic will grow in depth and message as it continues.
They could have implied it better by not having them named way differently - I mean, Weyland-Yutani (which we know is named after the founders) vs RDA?
