[quote=“Sunny_Daze, post:179, topic:832981”]
We liked the scene where everyone took turns carrying the gauntlet. It reminded us of the Play. 
I liked that scene too. Reminded me of the best video game trailer of all time.
I’d like to see Capt America in the past. Not the boring 40’s romance stuff – I want to know how he re-injected Jane with the Reality Smudge and got away with it.
I’m glad I helped you make your point - and no I didn’t realize you were being sarcastic - but I don’t see what your faux critique had to do with the other one.
I think I finally get what you mean here - as I was trying to straighten out aspects of the timeline.
The only thing that seems completely unanswered is Loki. I don’t see him ‘coming back to go to prison with Thor’ in this case.
I’m a bit confused with Thanos’ timeline - as for this movie, he jumped forward from a point before he had done the original snap and was then dusted - even with putting the stones back, doesn’t that leave the past without a Thanos to look for the stones and set this in motion? I get that by putting the stones back (how did they recreate the teseract or the scepter from just the stones?) that they kept the original timeline in tact - but this seems off. And I’m fine with that giving us a ‘new’ Gamora - which seems to imply that there should not be a Thanos … or a Gamora to get captured with Quale…
<head explodes>
Ultimately I think the two snaps that were enacted by the good guys not only brought everyone back into the present day, the second snap that dusted Thanos also papered any space-time continuum anomalies that may arise from that seeming contradiction. I assume the Reality Stone and Time Stone can do that kind of thing in combination. Arguably it could also have brought back Black Widow, but as Bruce had already tried that and failed, there seems to be an extra level of protection around the Soul Stone that won’t allow that.
There you go, with handwavium like that all contradictions can be addressed.
Putting the stones back wasn’t about keeping the original timeline intact, it was about not dooming the divergent timeline created when they went back in time. The original timeline can’t be altered—Banner says as much in the movie—which is why they couldn’t go to the past to stop Thanos there, but had to bring the stones forward.
…arguing that “everybody in the girl power lineup was basically irrelevant” because Captain Marvel is the most powerful superhero on the planet is like saying that it was irrelevant that women stood in solidarity with Christine Blasey Ford because Ford is tough and strong and why would she need support any way? It missed the entire point of the scene.
And if we are going to make the argument that “everybody in the girl power lineup was basically irrelevant” because Captain Marvel didn’t need the help: then the “Avengers…assemble” scene was irrelevant because nobody could hear what Captain America was saying.
But as you point out correctly: the scene isn’t for the “characters in the movie.” It is for us, in the audience, to pump our fists in the air and yell “FUCK YEAH.” People are perfectly happy for the men to have their irrelevant moment: but when women have an “irrelevant moment” people have to find a way that the moment was “wrong.” Just let people have their moment already.
Yeah, get over yourself. Have your moment and pat yourselves on the back all day long for all I care. My point was pretty clear, I have no problem with a pandering “moment” in a movie full of pandering moments, I just think that it was really badly done which hurts the message it was trying to deliver.
And it would have been so easy to do it better. A sweeping shot across the battlefield showing them all kicking ass would have been good, but if they wanted a lineup shot then why not have them step up beside Scarlet Witch as she faces off with Thanos himself, followed by them all actually putting Thanos on his ass a few times? That would have made far more sense in that it gives them a reason to all be in the same place while also making them look powerful against a credible threat.
Instead they line up to run point for the one person there who absolutely did not need their help. The intent was fine, the execution was poor., but I guess its just women-hating to think that.
I’m hoping that Quills search for the new Gamora ends when he finds out that she got dusted at the same time as Thanos and all his minions, because Stark didn’t know that she had switched sides…
…yep. You’ve made your point clear.
It was perfectly fine as it was.
If you did get a line-up shot with Scarlett Witch you would get the very same complaints: and considering how powerful Scarlett Witch turned out to be I’m pretty sure you would be arguing that a line up in front of SW would be “basically irrelevant” as well.
It makes as much sense as Captain America growling quietly to himself “Avengers Assemble.” It makes as much sense as Spidey and Iron Man finding each other on the battlefield and having time to have a heartfelt conversation. It makes as much sense as Peter Quill getting ripped by Gamora in a funny scene as thousands of people were dying around them.
And then we have the meta message. About solidarity. A message that you couldn’t get with a “sweeping shot” across the battlefield.
Of course she needed their help. They were up against fucking Thanos. He had already kicked their asses once. He had already killed 50% of everyone before. It was a fight to the death: and at stake were the lives of millions of people.
Captain Marvel had just gotten the Gauntlet off Spidey. She had to get it away from Thanos, A-Force were there to protect her. And A-Force managed to slow Thanos down: but he threw a “hail mary” and managed to blast Captain Marvel out of the sky, taking her out, meaning that she failed. She lost the gauntlet. Its absurd to claim that Captain Marvel was the one person “who absolutely did not need their help” when it the directors made it clear on screen that Captain Marvel needed their help. If they didn’t delay Thanos for the few seconds that they did then maybe he would have been able to catch Marvel instead of having to rely on a ranged attack. And if that had happened, then Tony Stark wouldn’t have been close enough to set up the Endgame.
It all fits if you actually watch the movie.
The execution was fine. You just didn’t get it. That okay.
Those are your words, not mine.
There’s maybe one reason.
Okay, two: just as a callback to Iron Man 3. But that’s also the ‘one’ I have in mind, because, well, how do all the stones get yoinked away from the gauntlet on Thanos and over to the gauntlet on Tony? Was there foreshadowing? Do you feel it came out of nowhere? Should there have been some kind of Chekhov’s Gun? I mean, it maybe would’ve spoiled the scene to hint at it; so, instead, it’ll maybe just let you down in retrospect: they couldn’t play fair, or you would’ve seen it coming.
Except then you see the kid, from the film where it’s practically a running gag that Tony kept working on ‘fly now to my hand’ tech, with little pieces of gear winging their way through the air over to where our hero was calling ‘em to him. Oh, right! That film makes this plot device look more like a fair-play mystery!
Nothing which suggests that it was a secret. He presumably used an assumed name.
Plus, he is 12 years older than Steve Rogers was back I. ‘45 when he “died”.
People won’t necessarily make the connection beyond “resembles jacked Steve Rogers”.
His Sharon Carter interactions will be awkward though.
In films and in the Agent Carter series, the identity and picture of her husband is never revealed. It was one of the lingering questions in the series. And it was not definitively answered, before it ended.
The show was cancelled in early 2016, right after the storylines for what became Infiniti War & Endgame were written.
I presume it’s not a coincidence.
Oh, please :rolleyes: I thought the scene was fine but there weren’t a hundred nuanced layers to unravel and examine – either it worked for a viewer or it didn’t. People who didn’t care for it weren’t failing to “get it” because there was very little to get. It just didn’t work for them.
…Oh, please :rolleyes: bucketybuck claimed the scene didn’t work because Captain Marvel absolutely didn’t need help, when the fact that Captain Marvel failed to escape with the gauntlet shows she needed all the help she could get. That shows that bucketybuck didn’t get what happened.
No, it shows that (as mentioned many times previously) Captain Marvel has fluctuating Plot Power where she can face-smash her way through an entire starship one second and get stopped by a couple mooks the next. It wasn’t a question of “Could she have done it?”, it was “Let’s frame this so we can show these women doing stuff as a team”.
He understood that perfectly well.
simster:
This bothered me a bit as well, at first. But I thought of an explanation/fanwank for it: Tony’s snap did not kill the people who were “dusted”, but rather, that “dusting” was them being returned to their own time with no memories of what happens in the future. Even though the effect looked the same, it was in actuality different. After all, Tony Stark is not a killer like Thanos, and he is smart enough to understand not to cause time paradoxes.
I don’t understand why so many people think Gamora is back. I thought that the last scene with the Guardians, which has Quill looking at a screen that is searching for Gamora and not finding her, was a clear indication that she was dusted with everyone else Thanos brought from 2014 (whatever the dusting meant - if my explanation is correct, than that works out well).
She shouldn’t have needed help. Nor should Thor for that matter, though we are talking about fat Thor so maybe he would. But this was a non-buffed up Thanos…he hadn’t even gotten one of the gems yet when the fight started. The whole reason he became so ridiculous later on was he gained power every time he put another stone in the gauntlet.
I thought the scene was fine, but if I was of a nitpicking mindset I could see how the power fluctuated a lot depending on what they wanted to show. It made no actual, logical sense if your suspension of disbelief was broken. Mine actually did break several times, and it was yammering at me during this final fight scene quite a bit, though I was able to tell it to shut up while I watched and enjoyed. If I watch it again, I’ll probably be in full pick the movie apart mode, since that’s just the way my mind works.
Pragmatically, because there’s going to be a GotG 3 and I doubt that they’re writing off one of the main characters. Especially because the whole core concept of GotG is them being a family and Gamora fills the hard-suffering mother role.
Back to a previous point, I would assume that Banner wished for the missing people to be safely returned which would preclude anyone reforming 30,000 feet in the sky or in front of a moving truck.
Marvel didn’t get stopped by anything that anybody did to her. She got stopped by Thanos wrecking the portal before she could throw the gauntlet into it. I guess I am only disagreeing with the implication that she got stopped by some mooks.
If Peter Parker had said “How’s she going to get it to the portal before they wreck it” and the female heroes all say “she’ll have help”, does that negate all of the objections?
My problem with the scene is not that we got a fist pumping moment of specifically female awesomeness (which could super-easily have been achieved in various other ways) or even a fist pumping moment of specifically female working-together awesomeness (probably somewhat tougher to organically write into the middle of a huge battle, particularly if you want them all to be working together as one unit); it’s that it’s logistically so ridiculous that it did (and continues to do so) take me somewhat out of the movie.
So… there’s this huge battle, with lots of fog of war and confusion. At one moment on one place on the huge battlefield there is (ignoring the question of whether Captain Marvel should need help or not) a need for help. And, instantaneously, every single female hero from all over the battlefield, wherever they had been, whatever they had been doing, whoever they had been fighting; and NONE of the male heroes, no matter how near-by; all arrive in exactly the same place at exactly the same time to provide that help?
It’s just silly. And yes, other silly things happen. For instance, the “characters always have time to have a heartfelt conversation and/or quips, even in the middle of an intense battle” cliche. I suppose that I’ve grown desensitized to them, because they’re so much part of the language of blockbuster action moviemaking. Whereas the “all the women from all across the battlefield, despite working happily with their male counterparts before and after this one moment, suddenly work together for one single gender-segregated mission” trope is not yet particularly common.
Would I have objected just as much if it had been men? Hard to say, it’s literally never happened… at least with a cast of this scale, with as many individual bad-ass male AND female characters, such that a sudden assembling of all the bad-ass male characters and specifically none of the bad-ass female characters would be so noticeable. (Obviously there have been plenty of movies in the past with tons of bad-ass male characters and NO bad-ass female characters, but that’s not really a meaningful comparison.)
To repeat myself from earlier:
As for the women-team-up scene, after a few hours of pondering, I’ve realized how I would do it, which would also solve another minor problem, which is that Thanos’s chief minions, who were quite serious mini-bosses in their own right last movie, barely registered.
So one of the (male) minions is fighting one of the female good guys. They trade blows, then he gets the upper hand, and makes a derisive sexist comment, calling her a little girl, or something. Then we do a series of camera cuts all around the battlefield as triumphant music plays, showing all the female heroes kicking ass, ending back at the initial fight, and she responds with a one liner like “I’m not a girl, I’m a woman” (but more funny) and dodges his death blow and chops his ass in half.
Same general celebratory effect, makes way more sense.