Yes I can hear Warren Zevon on the radio. I can hear Bach, Take 6, Miles Davis, Yolanda Adams and Tito Puente too–just not on a top 40 radio station.
Everyone here is acting as if packing is some new trick record companies just made up yesterday in order to keep their favorite band from reaching some sort of Top 40 nirvana, when, in actual fact, the only thing the record companies are doing is being less opague about it.
And yes, it kinda does make you a snob if your enjoyment of a song depends on the artist’s bio.
Why? I think it shows that Ms. Lavigne has no respect at all for her audience, and it seriously bugs the fuck out of me.
It’s comparable to if the new Jerry Bruckheimerish action movie had the tagline “You People Will Buy Anything With Explosions In It”. I have more tolerance for dumbed-down movies/bands if they aren’t so blatant about it. And that bio was extremely blatant.
It shows that Ms Lavigne’s handler, manager and record company know how to sell a Top 40 singer. How is her bio disrespectful to her audience? Does she say anyone who listens to and likes her is a guillible fool? 'Cause it sounds as if you are the one being disrespectful to her audience.
The first I ever heard of this bio was in this thread. All of a sudden I’m supposed to not like the song because the singer has created some fiction for herself? Like I was supposed to hate Buster Poindexter when I realized he wasn’t really a lounge lizard or dislike David Bowie when it dawned on me he really wasn’t from outer space? Or how I’m supposed to be disgusted by The Supremes because they really didn’t form on a project street corner and didn’t all love the shit out of each other?
If this was a tagline to a Jerry Bruckheimer action movie than it would be more truthful, not less. Many people [iwill* watch anything with explosions in it. So?
Her image is being marketed. Not her music. That’s certainly nothing new or unusual, but when even the ‘alternative’ image is being heavily marketed it grates. With me, at least.
Who said their enjoyment of a song depends on their bio? It’s a question of not enjoying the song and then knowing that the main reason you keep hearing it over and over again is due to marketing and not talent. If someone likes a song and doesn’t care about why it’s a hit, fine. No one’s saying you have to not like the song or artist. We’re just giving reasons why we don’t the song and/or artist.
[Kenny in Halfbaked]
Wash off your hate!!
[/Kenny in Halfbaked]
The good music is always there. It’s the fans who care so much about “recognition.” The musicians just want to play. No one is getting “choked out of radio play,” and even if it were, how can you possibly blame Avril Lavigne for this?
The radio has sucked for years. Everyone knows this, and yet this board is constantly full of people bitching about it.
I am a music snob of the worst kind, but I have to say I agree with Biggirl.
Even if she is (shudder)…an Alanis Morisette fan. :eek:
I would like to apologise to my fellow indie fans for this, but I have some shocking news to tell you.
If Avril Lavigne, Britney Spears and all the rest of them moved to an Alaskan convent and did not approach a recording studio for the rest of their lives, Fugazi, Warren Zevon et al would still not be played on the radio. And even if they were, even if they graced the cover of every single issue of Rolling Stone, appeared thrice an hour on MTV, were put on high rotation on all the major radio networks in whatever country you choose to name, the vast majority of the record buying public would still not be buying their records.
It’s awful, I know, but teenage girls aren’t buying Britney’s latest album only because they are unaware of the delights of Endhits. That is what they like. They want to hear that sort of music. And there’s nothing wrong with that.
Avril Lavigne isn’t occupying a place that rightfully belongs to Built to Spill or Modest Mouse or Sigur Ros. She’s essentially harmless. Sure, she is hilariously being promoted as part of a scene to which she really doesn’t belong (partly because that scene began and may even have been limited to a period five years befre she was born), but it doesn’t really matter.
If you really want to point fingers at a band preventing quality from airing on mainstream radio and being bought by the record buying public, you may have to look at the Linkin Parks and Limp Bizkits of the world. At least these bands occupy a niche closer to that of the Fugazis of the world than Avril and co do.
Remember, the radio stations that play Korn used to be playing Nirvana.
Until I clicked on this thread out of curiosity, I thought this singer’s name was “Levine” and that she was Jewish. Seriously.
“Complicated” is catchy enough, but the lyrics are just…I don’t know, insane? I hate to sound like I’m pullinga Dave Barry here to harp on song lyrics, but since her work is the issue of this thread, what does the chorus mean, “Acting like you’re somebody else, can’t you be frustrated?” How exactly does acting like a different person negate frustration? And, even allowing that this is true, why would the singer want someone to feel frustrated rather than feel better by acting like someone else? Huh? I’m glad I’m not her boyfriend (or, if she prefers, boifriend).
cmkeller, according to my 8-year-old son the line is, “I see the way you’re acting like you’re somebody else gets me frustrated” – which makes a little more sense.
When Jesse Michaels joined Operation Ivy in 1987 he helped to create some of the most influential and just plain awesome punk music around, helping to create the whole ska-punk genre. He was 18: one year older than Avril. See, punk - real punk, the kind of music Avril is creating a parody of - is full of teenagers who have made amazing music. Unsurprisingly their fans are/were young people as well. That doesn’t effect how I view them. Being 17 is no excuse at all and I find it vaguely insulting.
Besides, I doubt this is music for 17 year olds. I’m guessing the kind of people who are fanatical fans (that sounds really odd, but oh well) are most likely to be females from 10-14. I’m sure there are many people like you who hear the occasional song on the radio and sing along, but I suspect the people who are going to be buying magazines with her on the cover, purchasing all her cds, and going to her concerts are the same people who were in love with the Backstreet Boys. I would venture to say that many 17 year olds of both genders have either grown past the strictly pop music worship stage and have diversified their listening or lost the intense interest in music that promotes worship. I could be giving my fellow 17 year olds too much credit however.
The problem is that Avril is using her bio as a selling point of her music. Mind you, I’d never seen her bio before I heard the song “Sk8er Boi” but my opinion was formed before that: just from the song, it’s sadly obvious what the record companies are trying to package her as. As someone who respects the punk ideal, I find it vaguely distressing. It’s not something I’m going to get hysterical about, but like I said: it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I’m not saying it’s evil or the downfall of all life as we know it, but it’s just strikes me as… icky.
Has ANYONE on this thread ever said you shouldn’t like her? Please show me a cite, because I do not see one place where anyone has expressed this view. If you like her music, more power to you. Please continue taking pleasure in it and I’ll continue disliking it. This thread is for opinions about Lavigne – even when they don’t agree with yours! Just because I don’t like the girl’s music doesn’t mean I or anyone else in this thread thinks that all her fans are raging morons. Someone expressing their opinion about her music is not a personal attack on you. It’s not even a personal attack on the girl herself.
Tanaqui
PS: I loved Jagged Little Pill though none of her later or earlier albums grabbed me. But then Alanis did not make a music video about how punk trashing a mall is.
I actually enjoyed “complicated”. She doesn’t like it when one of her friends acts different around other people than around her. Of course, sooner or later Avril will realize that this behavior is called “pragmatism” and is essential to survival in the adult world. Can’t hold it against her now, as she’s only 17 or 18, and still entitled to cut off her nose to spite her face.
“Skater Boy” (I refuse to dignify the “punk” spelling) is completely infantile. A girl leaves a guy because she doesn’t have much in common with him (“He was a punk, she took ballet”), and Avril spend an entire song saying that she’ll be sorry someday. Apparently not liking punk is a serious character flaw according to Avril. I suppose that my love of classical music is snobbish according to her, seeing as I’m only 21 and should be listening to Green Day, System of a Down, or whatever else MTV says I should like.
Avril Lavigne has a lot of growing up to do, both in terms of her musical ability and outlook on the world. Unfortunately, the most likely scenario is that she’ll last about 2, three albums at most, try to make a comeback several years from now, and eventually open up a punk rock clothing store next door to Vanilla Ice’s extreme sports store in Miami. Please be kind enough to tape her episode of “Behind the Music” for me.
What pisses me off is her assumption that two people with different interests (or from different cliques if you will) can not get along. (And of course, it was all the snobby dancers fault.)
I like punk music (though I would never identify as a punk) and I’m thinking, “Oh, but I would like it if the girl did ballet! Stupid Avril garbage face.”
This is my point. If all those teeny-boppers want to listen to punk-- real punk, they can. The Avrils and Britnys and NSyncs of top 40 are not stopping them. They want Pop.
What I find vaguely insulting is the contempt that music snobs show for the tastes of the many. You don’t have to like top 40. I personally can’t stand Country and Western, but that doesn’t mean that their fans are somehow inferior if it turns out that Garth Brooks is really from the Bushwick Projects.
When I first heard “Complicated” I thought “Wow, what a brilliant little song!”. Had no idea whatsoever about the artist (except her name & sex obviously). Then I hear she’s a 17yo Canadian. Cool. Then I hear she’s a “skater chick”. Whatever, this is still a REALLY GOOD SONG!! I started recommending it 2 people long b4 seeing a photo of her or the video for “Complicated”, or hearing/reading her “bio”. My point? Who gives a rat’s-fat if she’s trying to be something she’s not, or she’s manufactured, or she’s an insult to the “punk genre” etc etc. Someone out there obviously likes her music coz they’ve sent her to #1 around the world. “Sk8er Boi” is funky! Vacuous & glib? - Yes! But who cares!? It’s cool, cute & catchy! We need 2 stop being so harsh on every new artist (generalised sweeping statement, I know, so please don’t bother to slap my wrist over it). Just give 'em a go!
Of course, it’s absurd to think the lyrics to “Complicated” or “Sk8er Boi” actually reflect Avril Lavigne’s personal opinions, since she didn’t write the songs. Come on, does anyone really think these aren’t songs designed by corporate songwriters? They’re specifically written to fill certain marketing niches.
Of course, even if she DID write them, doesn’t mean she believes this stuff. Sting isn’t a stalker for writing “Every Breath You Take” and Warren Zevon does not actually believe in werewolves.
