The horny toilet was being pushy, and moving much more quickly than his date was comfortable with. As soon as they started kissing, the toilet immediately became flushed, flipped up his seat and started rattling his chain. The evening did not end well.
What do you do if someone pulls away from your sexual advances? You don’t keep trying over and over and over again.
People are all getting hung up on the fact that she went part of the way sexually, but not all the way. If I decide to be nice and give you $5, does that entitle you to chase me around the apartment trying to get the other $5 out of my pants? Hell no. Same thing. You don’t demand more of a gift.
I was once a 22 year old woman (and a bit naive. though not for long). I also went to bed with people and regretted it mightily the next day. I never called out to the world that I had been assaulted, though. I just tried to make better decisions and not drink so much. As for assault, I have in fact been assaulted (n criminal and civil law, assault is an attempt to initiate harmful or offensive contact with a person, or a threat to do so) and what I did was fight back and leave the premises. This entire discussion makes me think that maybe the women’s movement ought to get back to teaching women self defense and self respect and stop trying to parse “assault” and get their names in the tabloids.
Jokes aside, someone has developed an app that basically does this and establishes that yes, Jane Smith did consent to sexytime with Fred Bloggs at this date and at this time.
Here’s the thing: Calling every fumbled pass or off-colour joke or poorly articulated suggestion “Sexual assault” or “Sexual harassment” diminishes the real harm suffered by people who have suffered actual sexual assault (rape and ilks unpleasant ilk) or actual sexual harassment (“Suck my dick or you’re fired”; people pinching secretary’s bottoms, all that other Mad Men stuff).
And worse, telling anyone who defends the accused in one of these minor/trivial cases - even on boring grounds like “There’s no evidence for any of this” or “It allegedly happened 20 years ago and putting a hand on your knee wasn’t a serious thing then or now” - that they’re effectively Glenn Quagmire themselves isn’t helping.
It’ll be interesting to see what the social dynamics of the first world are in a few decades when horny young men have access to realistic VR sex and can bang porn stars and computer-generated hotties at will.
I don’t think that’s true at all. Her story is a jumble that is the opposite of what you describe. She says she engaged in consnsual fellatio; yet when he tried to move her hand toward his penis it made her deeply uncomfortable.
Anyone can withdraw consent at any time, with no burden of explanation. But, by her own account, she did not withdraw consent, and he did not coerce her. Evidently she was not enjoying his sexual “moves”, and she asked him to slow down. But by her own account she chose to continue with consensual intimate contact rather than tell him to stop completely and/or ask to leave.
All of you guys making excuses need to fucking stop. We are discussing the actions of the guy. You do not get to use the actions of the girl to excuse the actions of the guy. Making up bullshit about taking away autonomy is bullshit. **That’s what you are doing because she’s telling you stuff and you saying she deserved it due to her actions. **
Anzasi pressured her. That is wrong. If someone wants to have sex with you, there is no pressure needed. Ansazi was specifically told she was uninterested. But he did it anyways. The part you guys are so focused on should never have happened in the first place, because she was pressured into that situation.
The lines were crossed. You want to pretend the lines are murky, but that only results in making unwanted sexual contact more likely. The entire thing we are trying to stop is unwanted sexual contact of any kind.
The criteria for consent is enthusiastic consent. If you are pushing the entire time, then you aren’t getting consent. Consent is a push-pull concept. You push, then you wait for reciprocation. You do not continue to push until you have consent via reciprocation. It’s not fucking hard.
Stop coming up with excuses. You are helping rapists. And it is disgusting, and the reason the #MeToo movement has to exist in the first place. Why can’t you just get that there is a line, and it is NOT “if they don’t verbally say no”?
And here we have a textbook demonstration of what I was literally talking about two posts previously.
…that doesn’t mean what BigT said was wrong. “Textbook” or not. Its easy to create a strawman and then point to it and say “proved my point!” But if you want to prove your point, you’ve actually got to do the work.
The hell we don’t. We’re judging her by her own consent, her own actions. Quit acting like she isn’t an adult party to this, you’re not helping.
“The only consent is enthusiastic consent”? Fucking bullshit.
…perhaps you could spread the judgement around a bit more. Why are you only judging her?
No, it is very hard because it is becoming more and more common for the first “push” to result in an accusation of improper sexual misconduct at the very least. There is no logical way to win at this game the way it is interpreted at the fringes.
I have never heard of this concept called “enthusiastic consent”. Life isn’t a porn set (although I would like to see that demonstrated with college cheerleaders). It doesn’t usually work that way at all.
No. You cannot. I do not consent to you doing so.
Can I recommend that you actually read the context of the posts to which you respond? Why yes I can. But of course you can continue to refuse to do so!
Stop and go back to the very first few sentences of my original post in this thread.
That was the post where we learned that BigT has never been married or in a committed relationship.
Yes, I am a little worried that all the middle aged married couples in the nation will soon be arrested for constantly assaulting one another.
…so this is how you do sex?
If someone gave you a non-verbal sign that they didn’t want to do sex, you’d ignore it?
A simple yes or no would suffice.
…yep. A rush to judgement about her in your original post.
Did you mean your second post?
That “judgement” is kinda neutered somewhat by what you posted next:
So “he crossed the line, but she didn’t leave, so what did she expect to happen?”
Is that a fair summary of your position?
Hey, thanks for coming roaring into the debate on page 2, ignoring most of what people have written and making this all about your judgement of other posters.
I have nothing further to explain to you as you are in no position of authority, moral or otherwise, to place yourself upon this high horse.
If you wish to state your opinion on the topic of conversation, please do so. If you want to play ‘moral authority’, take a hike.
You guys are missing the point! What about Justin Bieber’s monkey? It can’t even offer consent!
And is “period trapping” (whatever that is) really “the only way to find out if you’re in a relationship or not”?
Stranger
[Moderating]
If you want to make comments like this, take it to the Pit.