[b]Interested Observer[/b] and other vaccine disinformers: ARGH!

The BBQ Pit
101

I was immune, but they say you shouldn’t trust that, so when I hit 16 or so and still hadn’t gotten it they gave me the vaccine because varicella is so much more dangerous in adults. I think that’s a perfectly appropriate response for that particular vaccine - let the kids get it or not, but don’t let the adults.

I was quite surprised to read that link and see that I’m behind on my diphtheria vaccine. I can’t imagine where I’d get diphtheria, but I do work in a public library and god knows there’s diseases flying around here that would turn your stomach. Maybe I should get it, just in case. (I’m also behind on my tetanus boosters - I wonder why GPs don’t bug you about that? But if you get hurt they pretty much give you the shot anyway, so does it matter so much?)

102

As a childless person, I’d like to state that you come across in this thread as a petulant, smarmy, borderline-paranoid defender of willful ignorance.

Just to give you a different data point not tainted by “hysterical mom-ism”.

103

The diptheria component is there mainly to help the body respond to the others, which are the tetnus and now the pertussis (immunizing the adults also helping to protect the youngest at greater risk of more serious disease). In general adult docs have not been very good about or even set for regular vaccinations. Heck, the concepts of health maintanence and of being a medical home are still somewhat emerging for many adult MDs. Many have focused on dealiing with problems as they come up if for no other reason than that that’s how many adults use them.

104

As another childless person, I agree completely. Just in case she needs more data points, considering her persistant willful ignorance.

105

[quote=“SisterCoyote, post:34, topic:485971”]

Wring: Karl’s human, but she doctors on animals.
QUOTE]

Cite?

106

Found out from my dear old mom that I never had the measles. Being an adult, I figure that it’s a good idea to get one. A series of two shots. So the next time your kid is crying over a MMR shot and you tell 'em it’s not that bad–they’re not faking it. Felt like a white hot needle each time.

The older of the two sisters never bothered to vaccinate her kids–all nine of them. I’m dreading the day CNN reports on a medical tragedy in the southeast…:frowning:

107

Baloney. Jackmanii and KarlGrenze both gave you nice posts addressing that very concern, and LavenderBlue gave a long list of cites, the first of which included a link to this study, which appears to address exactly what you’re asking. If you’d read that and were still skeptical I’d expect different and more probing questions about the studies and research cited within. Instead your response has been to post more anecdotes about how you don’t remember childhood diseases to be so bad in the past, repeated statements about omg how many vaccines kids get these days and gee you’d be scared to have kids these days because of all the vaccines. It APPEARS to anyone reading that you’re attempting to equate your anecdotes with research and data, and when you get upset about the fact that people are countering your anecdotes with surprise! their own anecdotes, you appear pissy. Whether or not your concerns have merit is getting lost because of your inability to stick to your own point.

You’re right, that is really stupid of you to think that the fact that you’re not having kids will make it hunky dory that you’re anti-vaccine. I’m childless too. My concern is not your hypothetical kids running around infecting my hypothetical kids, but the continued spread of unsupported hysteria about the safety of vaccines. Calling people sheep and insisting they all have their heads in the sand is not going to endear them to your ideas. How about posting a cite? Something they can examine? Now you have something to argue that’s not your own experience and can be weighed on its own merits.

108

It’s kind of weird for someone to get pissy at the “mommies” over a decision they make regarding their own kids that affects the childless not a whit. In my observation, curlcoat just has a chip on her shoulder when it comes to parents, so no matter what they do, they can’t win with her. Oh well.

109

One is almost tempted to ask if she spays or neuters her animals.

Regards,
Shodan

110

For the sake of others who may be curious - the issue of immunizations and allergies has been addressed and disproven.

Here is one such study:

And here.

And this review of all studies done.

111

Am I evil for being grateful that she at least spayed herself?

112

Thanks for the info, very interesting. Question for you…IS there an increased prevalence of allergies now, or is it that we tend to diagnose & treat them more these days?

113

Yes, there does seem to be a true increase in allergies (including food allergies) and in autoimmune disorders.

114


scroll down for the story

bit of humor and perspective; the problem is that ignorance fights back

115

Then, perhaps, you could point out where? I had no bias in this one, just idle curiosity about the number of vaccinations that children get as compared to what has been discovered in dogs who are over vaccinated.

As for petulant, smarmy and all that, I probably was towards the end but I do get tired of the knee jerk response in here.

ETA: Just noticed you said childless, so if you are that and not childfree, it is actually possible that you are still tainted by “hysterical mom-ism” if you actually want to have kids.

116

Well, gosh, I’m sorry that my questions and comments weren’t probing enough for you, but I do think that the mature response to that might have been to discuss it rather than going straight to snark such as post #26 or #42, or off on a tangent about how vaccinations keep kids from dieing from the diseases, which appeared to start at post #26 (something I never disputed).

Regarding the cispimmunize.org site (for example), I found one article that focused on whether or not the infant’s immune system would be compromised enough to get the disease it is being vaccinated for, and another one that focused on vaccine safety. Neither one of these addressed my question, which was the long term affect of multiple vaccines on the immune system. As I wandered thru all of the links that Lavendar Blue provided, it seemed like no one has looked into this at all.

Did you notice what I was responding to there? I didn’t know that healthy well raised children died of the mumps and chicken pox (and some of the links *you all *provided on chicken pox indicated that children don’t actually die from chicken pox but from poor care and/or complications due to previous illness), and people latched onto that as if I were a militant anti-vaxer.

I was trying to assure people that I don’t have kids, will never have kids, and therefore even if I was an anti-vaxer, it isn’t going to make a bit of difference. Didn’t work.

All I did was respond to the posts I got. I’d say it is more that my point got totally lost in the rabid desire to stomp on me for daring to say that maybe children get too many vaccinations these days.

And that isn’t paranoid? This is a general discussion board, supposedly populated by adults. It’s impossible to discuss hot button subjects here? Christ, I’m not anti-vaccine! How the hell did that get lost in this? I am talking about the number of vaccinations, how some of them seem to be repeated quite often, and how many combination shots are given. This is why I said “hysterical mommy-ism” - as soon as I mention that maybe it isn’t a good idea to give so many vaccinations and/or not so close together and/or so often, here comes the NO NO NO, NOT VACCINATING WILL KILL MY KIDS.

Well, at that point I didn’t really care.

Wait a minute. You are taking me to task for not posting a link to a site that I didn’t know existed? A site that is totally on point to my questions, that you couldn’t be bothered to post previously? How is that my bad?

117

I have one unaltered pet, if that matters. Not sure why it would.

118

This one appears (it was hard to read) to only address where a particular vaccine will cause problems with the immune system, not whether getting 35+ before the age of 7 would.

I didn’t click on this link because what you quoted from it appeared to be addressing the same thing as the first one?

This one also appears to be addressing whether a particular vaccine causes problems down the line, not whether bunches of them do.

119

Your ignorance does not become less striking with repetition.

Earlier I quoted distinguished pediatrician and vaccination expert Dr. Paul Offit to you on the “normal” everyday exposure young kids have to antigens in their environment, which overwhelmingly dwarfs the antigen exposure they get from vaccines.

Here’s another way of looking at it - the number of antigens that bombard a child’s immune system from preventable infectious diseases vastly outnumber the antigens presented to the child in the form of vaccines. One’s immune’s system faces a far greater challenge from the actual diseases vaccines protect us against.

*"If the alleged ill effects of the vaccine are due to too many antigens, or too much antigens, or too frequent antigens, the diseases should be far worse than the vaccine in causing autism and autoimmune diseases. Unless, of course, the effects of the vaccines follow the principals of homeopathy: the less the exposure, the greater the effects.

It has been estimated that humans can generate about 10 billion different antibodies, each capable of binding a distinct epitope of an antigen (1). Estimates of antibody specificities in an individual range between 1,000,000-100,000,000 (2). We have the ability to make 10 billion antibodies and, due to exposure to various germs and other foreign materials, we make between 1 million and 100 million different antibodies.

Lets say as an argument that you have most of your antigen exposure is by age 18. To get 1,000,000 antibodies, you must make 152 antibodies day. I cannot find how many antigens the average human has made by age 18, but one antibody a day would result in 2160 antibodies by age 6 or 6570 antibodies by age 18. We are exposed to far more antigens in the world than 6570.

If a child is exposed to 1 antigen a day and makes one antibody a day, a very conservative estimate, then the vaccines represent about 0.694 % (15/2160)x100 of the antigen exposure of a six year old.

If a child makes 152 antibodies a day, still a conservative estimate, then by age 6 the vaccine exposure would account for .004% of the antigen exposure of the child."*

Remember the phrase “drop in the ocean” that Dr. Offit used to compare antigen exposure in vaccines compared to what kids get from their everyday environment? It fits.

Don’t think we’re not grateful. Your misinformation still potentially threatens other people’s kids and the population as a whole.

This protestation lost validity around the nth time you spewed falsehoods from the antivax playbook.

120

Just a minor correction (from another childfree person) - herd immunity affects all of us, including those without children. I was immunized with the standard immunizations of the 60’s and 70’s*, but if some nasty bug breaks free, I don’t want to depend on my decades-old immunizations - I want other people to keep on doing the right thing and keeping these diseases down.

*Which included getting no smallpox vaccination because doctors were convinced all smallpox was eradicated for all time. I’m still a little :dubious: about this, because I seriously don’t want to get smallpox.