Because it’s a man, and the majority of men do not have homosexual sex.
This is probably going to draw a lot of angry responses, but this is what I have observed.
Because rape involves intercourse, otherwise rational, intelligent people are under the impression that the root cause was sex. “She had it coming” is seen as valid because it’s not really understood that lust really had very little to do with the act, if anything at all. Rape is about violence, domination, humiliation, and pain. No one “wants” to be raped. It is a horrifying degrading experience. I don’t care how the woman/girl dresses. She was not asking to be dragged into a car/alley/room and beaten and forced to have sex against her will.
Some women experience orgasms during rape. This is not a sign of enjoyment. It is a physical response to friction, and ends up adding more humiliation and shame.
That anyone would still use the excuse “she was asking for it,” especially when applied to a 13 year old child, has no more grip on reality than the monster who raped her.
Alice, I think you missed the best quote from **prisoner6655321 ** in that thread…
So, to review, ladies… once we hit puberty, and probably before then, we are responsible for the thoughts that men have when they look at us. It’s our responsiblity to dress appropriately so that men are not troubled with lustful thoughts.
Now why does that sound familiar? Oh yeah, because it is what is generally taught in psycho misogynistic religious cults!
This equation only works if you think that “dressing sexy” is the major cause of rapes.
I think that rapes are caused by the rapists’ own twisted motivations, desire for dominance, aggression, what-have-you. For whatever reason, they like to rape, and go around scouting for victims.
“Dressing sexy” may be something that gets a person selected as a victim. So could being in a lonely place at night, like an apartment parking garage; for kids, being too sheltered, so that you aren’t wary enough of strangers; or conversely, believing that only strangers can harm you (most rapes are by people who know or are related to the victim).
It is really difficult to know which factors are most important, so it is best to try to make children aware of the dangers - in order to behave wisely, for their own protection.
But placing all of the blame on the child’s choice of clothing is IMHO quite wrong. It could be the case that she was attacked because she was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and would have been a target no matter what she was wearing.
A sad example - in my own city, a little girl was attacked on her way from school, abducted in broad daylight, raped and murdered - this was not “her fault” in any conceivable way, no matter what she was wearing; she was just unlucky to have run into a monster in human form.
13 year olds are not brainless beings. They are actually quite capable of having sensible and inteligent thoughts, and often able to assess risks.
Please look up GQ discussions as to whether there is any sexual activity involved in Rape. Rape is the use of violent sexual actions to humiliate debase harm and dominate another. It is sexual but not about attraction, lust or love. It is sexual but in an absolutely negative way.
Now a 13 year old is no adult, and so could have been put into the dangerous situation by means outside her control, or could be so unaware as to not know that certain places and actions are potentially dangerous. In which case of course she can in no way be blaimed for acting dangerously.
So it of course depends on the 13 year old as to how foolish or not they were to put themself into danger.
Put into a different example. If I go out at night get drunk and come home. If I organise transport home, then I am being wise. If I don’t and instead drive home, I’m being a criminal and 100% at blame for what might happen. If I walk stumbling home, and get mugged, I am 0% to blame for the mugging, the mugger is 100% to blame for the mugging, but I am 100% to blame for not being wise.
Well, yes. That goes without saying. Bippy, I do understand your point. But I have seen too many rape victims and the lingering affects from that one violent act of physical aggression to have much sympathy for the men that commit it.
That I would deffinately agree with, I just ignored the parents/guardians whatever’s role for simplicity. As I ignored societies part in that it labels such clothes as slutty or easy whilst also marketing such clothing to children.
In a more realistic break down.
Fault for not being safety minded.
Parents 50%
Society 20%
Where the girl just came from (not warning her, getting her a taxi) 10%
The person who drove by and could have given her a lift but thought better of it 1%
The police officer who was eating a donut rather than on his rounds 1%
lots of other similar minor events 8%
The girl not doing something safer 10%
All of which have no bearing on who is at fault for the rape, which is as I always said 100% the rapists fault. Malthus I don’t think dressing sexy is a major cause for rape at all. That said how someone dresses I think has a slight effect on the likelyness of them being raped.
If I walked arround a steriotype southern town at night dressed in a vinyl skirt and goth clothes, I would not be at fault for getting beaten up. But I would be fallable for having not been wise. When I walked roung San Francisco in vinyl skirt and goth clothes, I would not be to blaim if I got beaten p. I wouls be to blaim for not being very wise and am to blaim for not being very wise, but I chose to act and dress in a way that was provocative in the knowledge that I was taking a small risk, but feeling it worth the risk.
Maureen I think we actually agree completely.
I have no tollerance for a rapist, and they should hold complete blame for what they do no matter how foolishly or wisely their victim acts.
I have certainly heard of men being blamed for getting gay bashed because they dressed acted flamboyantly. I’ve also heard of men being blamed for getting mugged “Well what did you expect walking arround Brixton at that time of night.”
I abhore the meme that someone doing something unwise is somehow causing themselves to become a victim. That is rubbish and should never be heard in any court room. The idea that ‘she was asking for it’ is disgusting and valueless with respect to blame.
I just think people aught to try and look after themselves as much as possible.
Oh and I also think prisoner6655321 has about as much true Christian values as Pontious Pilot.
Malthus, I never said he did. Just that I don’t. No matter how the victim is dressed.
And on preview, yes, Bippy, we are in complete agreement. Right down to and including the fact that prisoner is a tool.
Pontius Pilate was the guy who crucified Jesus. Pontious Pilot was the famous Roman aviator. Neither of which should be confused with Paunchus Pilates, who was reknowned for his rock-hard abs.
Who says they don’t? Anyone who walks alone at night through a dark alley in a dangerous part of town is playing with fire. If he gets mugged and bashed, then even though it wasn’t the guy’s fault, he was really being foolish and taking a big risk. I bet you there are a very high percentage of times they get reprimanded for being so foolish as to do such a risky thing.
I don’t know if a thirteen year old wearing sexy clothes is being foolish and courting disastrous consequences. I’d say not. But they do attract attention, and it does contribute to obfuscating their real age and the real intentions they have, in certain circumstances.
In my other thread linked in the OP, it has been concluded by some that women dress a certain way because they want to feel sexy and to actively attract a male. If a thirteen year old hangs around in the same location, dressed the same way and looking a few years older than they really are, how is a male supposed to know she’s not there to also actively attract guys? I’m not suggesting she’s courting aggressive or abusive rape, but by being approached by random men believing her intentions are obvious, the end result may be statutory rape.
Arrghh. Posts before I can even post. Polarizing emotional arguments about this sort of thing doesn’t do much good. I agree with what Bippy posted in the last thirty seconds, and what s/he will post before I can hit submit.
Simply because we don’t yell “cut off his balls” doesn’t mean that we don’t fully support punishment for a crime (in this case rape). A person who commits a crime of opportunity is just as guilty and derserving of punishment as a person who goes out of their way to committ a crime. A victim of circumstance is just that: a victim. However, a person who, through poor judgement or decision creates an opportunity to become a victim creates a tragedy that would not have happened if they had made a more common-sense decidion. Note that this does not pass judgement on the vicitm. Instead, it is an objective observation that can lead to better decisions on the part of the victim if s/he is aware of why the crime was committed (e.g. because they created an opportunity).
In the case of minor rape, the circumstances change a bit because of the uneven relationship between an adult and a minor. Simply by age, an adult has an unfair advantage over a minor, amplifying the power an adult has over a minor and increasing the likelihood of coercion. If a 13 YO child is mature enough to recognize warning signs and places themselves in a risky situation despite those warnings, then the crime committed is tragic (as I’ve defined above), but the determination is muddied by the age difference. Perhaps the best outcome is to help the minor understand the emotional dynamics that led to the crime, rather than focus on crime prevention alone.
As far as Prisoner laying blame on provocative dress inciting male passion, that is a cowardly, bald-faced cop-out who’s only value is to weasel out of the responsibility that one is loudly professing otherwise.
Hey GuanoLad.
It’s just it seems to me (so no, I don’t have a cite) that it is women who get told to stay inside all the time. In my experience it’s far more likely that a man who got mugged or gaybashed would get some flack for not being manly enough to defend himself. (Also wrong, IMHO)
I mean, I’ve got a job and things to do that take me out after dark. However, I dress in a completly unsexy way (unless my attacker has a fetish for birkenstocks and baggy jeans, I suppose) so how much is it my fault for being attacked?
