Babies vs. wheelchairs

In My Humble Opinion
21

In San Francisco, the entire population of the bus would be working to find a way for the wheelchair-user to board, and telling the mother with the stroller exactly what she needed to do (hopefully move to another location rather than get off the bus).

Although I haven’t seen this specific situation, I have seen people with wheelchairs and other disabilities board under difficult circumstances (crowded bus; unusual wheelchair/walker configuration, etc.), and inevitably it becomes a community event, with everyone offering assistance and advice. Also, if you don’t stand to offer your seat to someone who needs it, you will be informed of your responsibility by other passengers.

22

Bolding mine.

Read the thread, and you might find out!

23

Not really, no. People are saying that the disabled person should have priority, but offering no realistic suggestions as to what the parent should do. On the buses where I am, there’s no other place to put the pushchair - even if it could be folded up, it would still have to go somewhere, and usually the only available space would be in the pushchair/wheelchair space.

So, the realistic options are to stay where they are, or get off. I don’t know how many people here regularly travel by bus in the UK, but I do. I’ve never seen someone fold up a pushchair, and I’ve seen people refused entry if the pushchair spot is full. No idea what would happen with a wheelchair, I’ve never seen that.

24

If a public convenience designates limited space for people who qualify to use it, it is first-come-first-served.

As a handicapped person myself, it is my opinion that this whole handicapped fixation we have in public facilities is just silly. If a public restroom is equipped with a stall designed to be handicapped-friendly, and an able-bodied guy is in there taking a dump, he doesn’t have to get out of the way for a handicapped user.

25

I’ve known of more than one case of a well person sitting in a wheel chair for preferential treatment.

26

Hey! I’m putting disc brakes in my 68 Mustang because, while it would go, I’d also like it to stop on command.

27

I’ve seen plenty of pushchairs folded up on top of the luggage space. If there was a single seat free, it could lean against that, too.

28

What luggage space? It’s been years since I’ve seen a bus with that.

Here in Nottingham, the only realistic option is for one or other not to travel on the bus. I don’t know for sure if buses in Leeds are the same, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they are.

So, say that it happened here, and folding the pushchair wasn’t an option. What should happen? Do - or should - disabled people have the right to have other people kicked off public transport so they can travel?

29

Where I live we have exactly the same kind of buses and I’ve seen similar situations. The buses vary a bit but it’s actually possible to get as many as three pushchairs on board with a bit of goodwill from all parties and surrounding passengers. Good will is of course the key here. Whenever a wheelchair user boards people will usually rearrange themselves and their things so that everyone can get on/stay on. Sometimes the driver gets involved too. I don’t know what went wrong here but I think the woman with the baby was being an arse and it’s a shame no one called her on it.

I voted for the wheelchair user in the poll

30

The baby!!

j/k

31

I agree with all of that. But this isn’t about whether someone’s being an arse, it’s about legal rights. I’ve certainly moved many times to let people on, or to make it easier, and most people would as well.

So, if there were already 3 pushchairs on board, should one get off so a wheelchair user could board?

I haven’t voted yet. I favour first come first served on general principles, but I’m open enough to being convinced otherwise.

Again, I think everyone should do everything they can to accommodate a wheelchair user, but the question is about legal, not moral, obligations.

32

Yes. I have seen bikes kicked out when the train became too busy. I believe over-sized baby strollers should be treated the same.

33

Another vote for the wheelchair to have priority.

34

I agree, but when there are three regular stalls, and one accessible one, and all are free, you should not use the accessible stall if you don’t need it, just in case someone in a chair (or who needs the arm bars, or something) happens to come in. Unless it is the only one with TP.

That’s entirely different from retrofitting a 1930s roadster with rear-wheel drive to accommodate a 21st century engine. The modification to the dashboard alone is mind-boggling. Heck, just the welding required to have engine mounts is going to cost thousands of dollars, I’d bet. You are pretty much building a car from scratch.

I had my 94 Acura retrofitted with AC so that I could have AC (and the defogger) when they stopped allowing the kind of refrigerant the original equipment took, but that’s entirely different too. This guy wants to jaunt around in what looks like a vintage car, to be cool, but then he also wants to thumb his nose at anyone who says driving a car that gets 10mpg is stupid. He wants to cover all his hipster bases.

35

I don’t know what the buses are like in Nottingham or Leeds. But around here, buses all have some space for luggage just behind the door. Perhaps they would use it for seats if they could, but that’s presumably where the left front wheel goes. I don’t know what other option there could be for double deckers, at least.

I don’t think people should be kicked off buses for disabled people if they’re taking up one seat per ticket, but if they’ve brought a large amount of other stuff with them, it might be reasonable to ask them to make room, and if they can’t, to get off. An unfolded pushchair takes up a lot of room that’s also unavailable for other paying customers (which the pushchair and baby are not), and is not strictly necessary in the same way a wheelchair is.

36

I was surprised when I learned from a friend that the London buses’s spaces for wheelchairs were a bit dependent on the goodwill of the other bus riders. Here in NYC, you MUST give up the seats in the wheelchair access area if a person using a wheelchair boards, and the driver will enforce this. As will the other people on the bus. I take the bus A LOT and have only once seen a situation where a person using a wheelchair couldn’t board because another person in a wheelchair was already using the space. (Some NYC bus models have one space, others have two spaces.)

Strollers must be folded all the time. Although I have had nice bus drivers who have let me board with a stroller during a non-crowded time, especially when it was just me and the baby and I had bags and things, so that I could get a seat and get it together and then fold up the stroller.

So I voted for wheelchair because that seems so normal to me. Lugging a baby around on a bus can be a hassle, but it seems obvious it is not as much of a hassle as navigating public transportation in a wheelchair.

37

To go along with what Steophan is saying, from the article

I’m surprised this is apparently the case, but if it really is, I’d have to go with first-come, first served.

Do those of you voting wheelchair user should get priority keep your same vote if it means the mother and baby have to get off the bus right there?

38

Obviously, something is wrong if the bus can’t accommodate a wheelchair and a stroller, but it seems to me that buses have those spaces, not to mention the lifts, because disabled people lobbied for them. I think that the that the mother is “squatting,” in a sense, and can be evicted, but I’m an American, and I’m used to different standards. If there’s really a sign that says she has equal access, and the bus driver has no authority to remove her, then legally, I guess the guy in the wheelchair is out of luck-- at least until the court renders a verdict. I hope it is in his favor, and as a response, the buses are restructured so that there are more spaces. Seats that fold back certainly work well.

Now, my vote was my opinion regarding what is right. What is right and what is legal may not be that same thing, which is why I hope the court brings them into alignment. Should the mother have gotten off? I think she should have, but I think so because I think she should not have relied on the space being available, and should have been prepared to sit somewhere else. What if the bus had arrived, and the space had been occupied? Do you not have these in England? It’s called an “umbrella stroller” in the US, because it folds up so that it take up not much more space than a folded-up umbrella-- I’d say less space than two compact umbrellas. They cost about 15, and some stores give them free to parents who buy more than n of baby stuff, with n = a very low end estimate of the costs of what you need for a new baby.

The mother specifically said she did not want to wake the baby-- she did not say there was no place for the stroller, even folded, not that she did not want to get off. She said she didn’t want to wake the baby, and she had just as much right to the space, and therefore should not have to wake the baby.

I wonder what she would have said if her baby had been awake, and another mother with a sleeping baby had boarded, and asked her to move, so that the new mother would not have to wake her sleeping baby, but the awake baby could be moved from its stroller, and the stroller folded?

The dude in the wheelchair should have bumped the stroller, and awakened the baby. No more excuse. Problem solved.

39

Isn’t that exactly the problem the person in the wheelchair is facing? What if when he arrived, the space had been already occupied by another wheelchair? He’d be in the same boat.

At least if someone isn’t allowed on, they would be near their home or wherever they were coming from. They aren’t just kicked off and left stranded somewhere they may not even be familiar with.

40

:o I have the second pram, bought two children ago. My one big splurge, though I got it much cheaper than that Amazon listing. I have never regretted it. The thing is a dream to drive. Even on the beach! Plus, it doubles as a downstairs sleeping-cot until the infants are walking age. I will be passing it on to my first grandchild.

Anyway, I also have a $20 umbrella stroller, and a sling, that I have used when needing to take mass transit. To do otherwise would be weird and embarrassing.