I just don’t want to badmouth him. My parents did that and I hated it. My friends do that with their ex spouses. Whatever feelings of negativity I have with D., I share with D. It’s OK if D. looks bad by default, but I’m not saying, “He’s a jerk!” to a six year old who holds no animosity to the stranger.
If Judah ever says, “He’s a jerk!” well, then that’s different. I just have a feeling that one day, they will be talking to each other and I don’t want to look back and go, “Damn it. I handled that one all wrong.” It’s not my position as a parent to tell Judah that his ‘dad’ pisses me off. When Judah gets pissed, the conversation will change. He’ll also be able to understand more.
But now? He’s six.
Didn’t realize we had so many shrinks on this board. Just kidding.
He draws things everyday. He had to make a card for his grandpa (well, I asked him to) and then he made me one. He said it wasn’t fair I didn’t get one just because I was a girl. I thought it was pretty sweet. Not once in that whole day did he mention ‘not having a dad’. I was really afraid he would, though, considering he was five at the time, but he didn’t. This year, he probably will.
I understand that. What I was wondering was why what to write in the “dad” blank was even a question. He may be absentee, but he knows who his dad is.
I agree about not bad mouthing his dad. But that is not the same thing as valid criticism. I have told my kids that their dad handled things wrong in the past.
I think you’re right on target by not calling him names. (BTW, you sound like an awesome mom, and you don’t really need advice as much as people to bounce ideas off of - so bounce away!)
There’s a difference, however, in calling someone a jerk and letting the child know by tone of voice and body language that you’re disappointed in how his father is acting. Disappointment is okay. It sends the message that you don’t share his values, that you think your son will be a better father to his kids someday, etc., but it’s not bashing. We shouldn’t bash, but neither should we enable, you know? “He isn’t ready to be a dad…that’s really too bad,” said with a sigh and a hug, isn’t bashing, but it does let the kiddo know that it’s not exactly wine and roses, either.
LOL. No, not a shrink, just overtrained in child development. And a mom.
Thanks for the clarification. That scenario wouldn’t worry me, it makes me think Judah is an awesome, thoughtful, wonderful person, just like his Mama.
@ OP - I feel for you and your desire to fill what’s missing in your son’s life. Unfortunately, your son will probably always have a spoken or secret desire to have a real life Dad in his life. And when I say always, I mean always even into adulthood. Even so, It sounds like you are doing a great job.
This pretty much. He keeps in touch with you, but can’t be bothered to acknowledge the kid, even tangentially. Beyond this he’s a single man it’s not like he’s married, and has a wife and kids of his own that he has to worry about. It’s hard to wrap your head around his attitude.
Re his attitude I think there are two factors at play here
1: He is not the daddy type in any way, shape or form. Whatever kid shaped space there is in most men’s hearts is simply not there.
2: There’s some subtext here that, regardless of justification, on some level he really deeply and fundamentally thinks you played him re getting pregnant and then keeping the baby, and now he feels that you are playing him again by trying to get him involved as a dad. Regardless of how overtly polite he’s being he feels very manipulated by you. This resentment is being played out as a determination to be detached from the child.
Having said all this I do wonder at this attitude
It’s certainly your prerogative to write this off as a possibility, but, assuming you could find a man you loved and wanted to marry, his having a dad would solve a large number of problems. Your unilateral dismissal of this notion is just as rigid and odd as his determination not to be any kind of a dad. Your baby daddy looks at this attitude as further evidence he is being played into funding your desire to be a solo parent.
He knows this situation isn’t normal. At some point, he needs an explanation, and for a kid, it’s going to come down to “is it something wrong with me, or something wrong with him?”. I guess my concern is that you seem really concerned with emphasizing that there’s nothing wrong with what D. has done, or at least nothing really wrong–you seem convinced it’s done your son no harm at all–and that if you take that tack with your son, he may come to the conclusion that the rejection means that he’s the one that was lacking in some basic quality that would make his Dad want him–something all the other kids (even the ones with divorced dads) seem to have.
I have a friend who’s mom was a meth addict, and starting when she was about eight, her mom left her full time with her grandparents. The grandparents were very careful not to badmouth the mom. So my friend, quite logically for a child, put together a few things her mom had said the last time she had visited and spent the next four years with the rock-solid understanding that her mom had left her because she, the daughter, was fat. She thought this was so self-evident and shameful that she never brought it up with her grandparents. She thought it was just understood by all, but that she, the daughter, was so terrible that no one talked about it.
I guess what I am saying is that kids need some kind of reason for things, and if you don’t give him one, he will figure one out, and that may be any kind of wacky idea.
He’s had to fill in info for his dad twice now. And his paternal grandparents and aunts and uncles on that side! I thought about leaving it blank because he doesn’t think of his dad as his family. We ended up putting his name in there. I was the one filling it out. I let Judah designate the rest.
When they did the actual ‘house’ art project for their Hebrew lesson, the kids had to draw pictures of their family. “Abba” was his grandpa (my dad), Imma was me, and for the grandpa slot he ended up drawing a picture of my dad’s dog! lol I so kept that one.
I guess I don’t want to tell Judah, “D. made a moral mistake” because Judah doesn’t harbor any bad feelings nor does he feel bad. (I know this because we’ve talked about it and he tells me everything, o ye naysayers.) Why create them? They’ll come in time. “D. made a mistake cause you’re awesome!” is another thing.
Thanks. <3 I just need help bouncing the framing. If I show any kind of negative emotion, he’ll pick up on it. He’s just that kind of kid. You know, like if he bumps his head and I go, OH MY GOD ARE YOU OKAY??? before he’s had a chance to react, then he’ll cry like he broke a bone. I try the* calm and wait it out approach* when I can.
This is more than a bump on the head, but I’d rather his questions come to me than me putting my feelings on him. I’ve told him I love him more than a billion dads. Judah and I have an expression: the mostest mostest. He’s my mostest mostest.
I did say today when we talked about it that his dad didn’t want to be a dad. He and I talked about it and he made a distinction between ‘dad’ and ‘family’. He has an idea of how biology works, so I’m not sure he really wants to think about certain logistics. :o For him, everyone has a dad. duuuuuhhh. (“He puts his penis in a girl’s shell and stuff comes out” is how he puts it. :dubious:)
[quote=“Manda_JO, post:46, topic:579549”]
I guess my concern is that you seem really concerned with emphasizing that there’s nothing wrong with what D. has done, or at least nothing really wrong–you seem convinced it’s done your son no harm at all–and that if you take that tack with your son, he may come to the conclusion that the rejection means that he’s the one that was lacking in some basic quality that would make his Dad want him–something all the other kids (even the ones with divorced dads) seem to have.
No. D. is selfish and emotionally stunted.
I’m just against assaulting D when talking to people. If it came down to it, if I *really *thought it would make Judah feel better, then I’d say, “Yeah! Stupid fuckhead!” but since that’s not Judah’s issue, what’s the point? A little bit of grace never hurt anyone.
I didn’t say no harm was done. I said I can’t be angry about it for the rest of my life. I can allow myself to get angry sometimes, but I refuse to carry it around. This wasn’t a thread about D. bashing, so please don’t judge how you think I feel about D.'s decisions. I was very angry at first, and now I’ve let that go. What is will be. I have a beautiful son and he’s my priority. If/when Judah has problems with D., I’ll always be on his side.
I did. I said he didn’t want to be a father. It wasn’t because of Judah. It was because of D. D. is missing out. I looooooooooveee my Judah.
I’m not going to say, “He’s a real jerkbag/bad person/mean/etc.” That conversation comes up when he’s old enough to think about context. I just want to address Judah is dealing with this now. Right now, he thinks, okay, dude didn’t want to be a dad, but he sends money, I love my mommy, and I have friends who don’t have a dad and a mom in the house - but at school, everyone has a dad and a mom. I don’t know what to say when they ask where he is. He has heard stories already about other people with absentee dads…and the bad language that follows.
So when we talked about it this evening, I was very careful to let him come up with his own responses that weren’t…pirates and ship-related.
He decided:
If a kid asks if he had a dad, he has to say yes because everyone does, but his** family** is Imma and himself. [that was his semantic hangup – it’s impossible to have a baby without a male and a female, even if lesbians have kids!]
If they press further, Judah will say that his mom is important to him and it’s his own business. End of convo.
Any teasing is taken to the teacher.
And then I will be arrested for beating some kid to a pulp.
The only problems Judah seems to have about this dad issue is other people telling him what should and shouldn’t be.
It may not be for you or your son, but have you looked into the Big Brothers program? My sister’s BFF did the Murphy Brown planned single motherhood thing, and her son benefited greatly from BB.
I might lead Jonah to the realization that D is “selfish” at some point when having a conversation in the future. I wouldn’t wait TOO long, you still want him to be at an age where you can manipulate the conversation - but you want HIM to have the realization. That doesn’t have you badmouthing D - it has Jonah seeing that D - like all human beings - is flawed, but it does have Jonah recognizing that it isn’t him - that its choices D is making that D sees as benefiting D.
Is D missing out - you betcha. But the other side of the coin is “D is choosing to miss out, because he doesn’t want to make the emotional commitment to another human being and take responsibility for not hurting them - or risk getting hurt.” And I think that Jonah at some point will want to realize that so he doesn’t think D would come around if Jonah weren’t even MORE wonderful than he is.
I don’t know that the OP actually needs much advice. It sounds like she’s got the situation about as under control as could possibly be expected, given the circumstances. I am curious, though…why send pictures and things to D when you know he’s completely uninterested?
I guess the one thing I want to add is this: you’ve said a couple of times that you don’t want to bash or badmouth D, partly so that you don’t discourage him if he should ever decide he does want to be involved with Judah.
I’m fully in favor of not burning any bridges unnecessarily, but I would suggest two things (which may not need to be said, but better twice than not at all):
Although it’s fine for you to privately be open to the idea that D will come around, please never suggest to Judah that this is even a possibility. For most kids (and some adults*, for that matter), it’s hard to grasp the difference between something that might happen, and something that will happen eventually. If you don’t want to get his hopes up, don’t talk about the future at all. If he starts asking, “Maybe someday? Maybe?” just tell him, “D doesn’t want that. It’s his choice,” - and please feel free to add that you think it’s a bad one - “but it’s got nothing to do with us, and we can’t do anything to change it.” Counter any dreams of “how things could be” with “this is how things are”.
If D does decide he wants to be more involved at some point, please be very cautious and take things as slowly as possible. The last thing you want is for Judah to grow attached to D, only to have D decide that no, he was right the first time, and he really doesn’t want to do the “dad” thing after all. Because as much as it might suck for Judah to think “D would love me if he only got to know me,” it would be infinitely worse for him to think “D got to know me and still doesn’t love me.”
And remember, even if D does get involved and does stick around, it’s never going to be a typical father-son relationship like Judah hears about at school. D will have already missed out on a huge portion of what goes into being a dad, and can’t just magically step into the dad role, no matter how much he or you or Judah might wish it. Judah will have a lot of preconceived ideas about what D is like, and what having a dad is like. If you take a wait-and-see approach (“D wants to send you an email - would you like to hear from him?” rather than, “Yay! D finally wised up and decided to be your dad!”) it will help him reconcile those ideas with reality. And of course, there’s a not-insignificant chance that Judah may get to know D and decide he’s not particularly interested in having a relationship with him. You want to be sure he’s comfortable expressing that, and not feeling like he’s disappointing you.
In short, rather than hoping for D to have a change of heart (and I’m not saying you are), just hope that Judah will be happy and feel loved and well-cared for, whatever happens.
And it sounds like he will.
*Consider how many times you’ve heard someone say, “Hah! The weather guy said there was a 90% percent chance of rain today - and he was totally wrong! It never rained!” But of course, the weather guy wasn’t wrong; there can be a strong possibility of something happening even if it doesn’t happen.
I’m starting to have this conversation with my 14 year old daughter. Her father was very involved for the first 8 years of her life, then gradually withdrew and for the last few years has been almost non-existent. Her dad and I are still on “good” terms - meaning I hate him passionately for hurting her like this, but am friendly and polite in all communications with him and I don’t badmouth him to or around her.
This is a good read, and is affirming my approach to the situation. Good luck to you and Judah, CitizenPained.
(Also, I know way back when, I used to make comments to my daughter’s father about never getting married because I still harbored hope that he and I would get back together and we would be a “real family.” I hope you’re not doing the same.)
The OP has said she is not getting married period. Grayhairedmomma is saying she hopes this determination is not because she thinks or fantasizes that she and the bio-daddy “D” still have a shot at being a couple.
Both the mother’s “no marriage” position and the bio-dad’s “no interaction” posture are kind of odd. These are both stubborn, willful people who want things their own way.
First let me say, that I don’t condone calling kids bastards. But why did you tell your kid that it wasn’t bad, then go and tear the person that said it “a new one”?
Why didn’t you tell your kid that it’s not a nice thing to call somebody that?
IANAPsychologist but I have been through a lot of training in this regard (about 100 hours worth) in the process of adopting our children (who never had a dad before but have three moms and can’t see one of them, yadda yadda).
The number one rule of kids that age is that everything is about them. They don’t understand that the world is made up of lots of people and that their actions impact the world.
So, what Jonah is seeing is that he is different than all the other kids and at his age, he will perceive that as being his fault. He will age out of it but for now there will be little you can do to change his perception. The lie was a way to no longer be different because it does hurt him. He doesn’t necessarily want to have a dad but he doesn’t want to be different (especially since it must be his fault that he is).
I didn’t say that it is anyone’s fault (except maybe the school’s). D couldn’t hack it as a dad and he made a decision to not be involved and you stepped in to fill what your son needed.
But you were looking for sounding boards. I do have some ideas.
I am normally opposed to lying to children but I think in this case you should continue to take the financial support from D but make to Jonah as if there is no contact. Just the idea that there is a father out there who you ‘talk’ to from time to time will be confusing to him (in the ‘Why doesn’t he want to talk to me?’ way.) I would keep all contact I had away from him.
You need to ask him some tough questions about dads. It sounds like he is hurting. It doesn’t have to be ‘I need a therapist’ time for you to talk to your kid about their feelings. He is probably hurt that he doesn’t have a dad. It is no reflection on you that he does. You sound like a wonderful parent. He would probably like to talk to you about this, though and can sense some negative emotion you have about it. Sit him down and chat. Make it an open topic. Tell him that you understand. Try to listen.
Just kidding.
What part of the OP posts did you get this from, that I must have missed?