Baby, go to sleep, damn it! And learn to sit, too, while you're at it.

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I am the proud father of a seven month-old baby boy. For purposes of this thread, I will call him Charlie. That happens to be his name, too.

Anyhoo, Charlie is a lovely little boy. Handsome. Healthy. Really, what more could a parent ask for? I’ll tell you what a parent could ask for: A baby that doesn’t get up twice every night!

Charlie had a brief spell when he was about four months old during which he slept through the night. We thought we had crossed into the promised land. But, oh no. It was a mirage. Before and since, he has consistently gotten up at least once. Sometimes twice. Sometimes thrice. He’s usually hungry and will drink a full bottle. (At least, a full bottle for him. He takes small meals.) All the sleep advice books say, if your baby’s hungry in the middle of the night, feed him! Don’t experiment with sleep strategies on a hungry baby.

In addition to general sleep deprivation issues and the marital tensions created by negotiating night-time duties in a daze that isn’t conducive to empathic communication, I am additionally frustrated by:
[ul]
[li]The fact that every book and expert says babies don’t have a biological need for nighttime feedings at this age.[/li][li]The fact that every friend of ours (and there are several) with babies this age have babies that sleep through the night.[/li][li]The fact that people ask us how he sleeps, we tell them, and then they say “Wow, he’s a little old to be getting up that much!”[/li][/ul]
Implied by all those books and experts and well-meaning friends is the following hypothesis: “You must be doing something wrong.” Criminy! If we are doing something wrong, I wish someone would tell us what it is so we can stop!

Plus, he still can’t sit up on his own for more than 10 seconds. Or crawl, at all. His little buddies at daycare are starting to run circles around him. I am a born worrier, and these things fit right into the in-box in my brain labeled “ANXIETY OVER CHILD’S DEVELOPMENT,” an in-box that had remained empty until seven months ago.

Why didn’t anyone tell me having a baby was hard? Oh, wait, they did. Damn me for not listening.

2

I feel for you. My beautiful girl is definitely a little challenge.

I’m sure everyone has told you this (that is, the ones who aren’t already pointing out your baby’s “flaws”) - All babies are different.
In my mom & baby class this morning, we were talking about rolling over. Here’s how things looked:
Brody (3 months) rolls all the time
J (3 months) rolls
E (5 1/2 months) rolls, but just started last week
A (5 1/2 months) rolled once about 4 months, then never again
N (6 months) has never rolled
L (6 months) rolls all the time

And that’s just one thing, with one group of people.

If you are really concerned, take him into the doctor. If the doc tells you not to worry, then you can feel better. (not that you will stop altogether - I don’t think any parent ever stops worrying entirely)

Has he started on cereals and solid foods yet?

3

I am not a parent, so all I can offer is a friendly note across the intarwebs. That said, I’ve worked with kids for years and years, so here’s what I’ve got:

  1. It’s a waste of time and energy to compare your child – especially at such a young age – to other children. Babies learn at their own paces, and if Charlie seems to be a bit behind in the motor skills category, odds are that in a few months he’ll be blowing the other kids out of the water in terms of verbal skills, or fine motor skills, or what-have-you. The best thing you can do for yourself is to relax about it. When those irritating little thoughts about Charlie vs. Other Babies, immediately focus instead on the awesome things about him: he’s healthy, beautiful and your fantastic little guy.

  2. Maybe it’s time to experiment with feeding strategies rather than sleep strategies. Does he take small meals because that’s what you offer, or because that’s all he’ll eat? During his waking time, could you try extending the time between feedings so that he’ll eat more when you do feed him? I’m not talking drastic changes, but a gradual extension of time between meals, especially leading up to the last one of the day. If you can work on making that final meal of the day bigger, maybe he’ll sleep longer.

Good luck!

4

Thanks. While I’ve certainly read and heard the “all babies are different” mantra, data points are always reassuring. Charlie has actually become a reasonably good roller in the past couple of weeks. (Though, like a weekend basketballer, he can only go to his right.)

I don’t think I have any real concerns about his development … yet. He is still within the “normal” ranges for the developmental stuff; it’s mostly fear that I will soon say “Oh my god, two months have gone by, the ‘normal’ range has ended and he’s still not crawling! Oh my god!” The doc at his six-month appointment (a month ago) was unconcerned about anything. Plus, I tell myself he is spending his energies on verbal development – because he is a quite verbal baby. He loves to babble and watch people talk to each other. But, like I said, I worry at least a little about a lot.

Oh, and as for solids: He gives it the old college try at least once a day, but does a fair bit of refusing. We try to give him some solids twice a day, but there’s no predicting our degree of success with each attempt.

5

Most babies can sit unassisted by the *end *of 8 months. That still means lots of normal babies can’t. If he’s not sitting *with support *by the end of 8 months, it might be time to take him in for a look-see, but I wouldn’t worry yet.

You can work with him to strengthen his trunk muscles by making him reach for toys, especially by making him cross his midline - hand him a toy more on his right, but hold his right hand so he has to reach over with his left. Even laying down or sitting propped with his Boppy or pillows, this reaching will strengthen his core muscles and his balance.

If he’s still eating “small meals”, (less than 5 ounces), then he probably is hungry at night, poor thing. Is he on any solids yet? I’m usually a fan of waiting until a year, but some babies are ready sooner. Solids do take longer to digest, and a dinner of smooshed avocado or sweet potatoes might help him feel full longer. He may just have a tiny stomach, and that’s actually a good thing, as far as preventing obesity goes. Filling it with nutritious and fiber filled foods might help. Personally, I hate rice cereal and don’t know why it’s such a popular first food. It passes through almost undigested, but doesn’t even have any fiber to it to be useful. It’s purely about introducing texture, but it’s almost entirely empty calories. Might as well feed the kid granulated sugar. Avocados, on the other hand, have lots of brain building fats, a decent amount of fiber, and can be pureed, mashed or diced, depending on the baby’s feeding development.

I personally think 8 months is old enough for sleep training for *behavioral *nighttime wakers - those who have decided it’s happy fun play time - but if he’s hungry, that’s just mean. Still, his nighttime snacks should be boring affairs. No lights on, if you can help it. No eye contact, no prolonged snuggling or rocking him back to sleep. It’s all about business, not fun.

6

First off - its rare that seven month old babies sit up. I have two and the first - who was considered fairly physically advanced - came home from Korea at six and a half months - he could GI Joe crawl - but it was at least a month later before he could sit up. His sister did everything about a month after he did. Don’t sweat it unless your peditrician starts dropping hints about physcial therapy. Early sitting up and getting into Harvard have no correlation.

Second, you do what works for you with sleep, and ignore the books. Is he on solid food? - solid food stays in a tummy longer. Some kids will give up middle of the night feedings if you move them to water. Do you go in immediately - if you give him five minutes, he may not be hungry at all, he may just be waking up and fussing because that’s what babies do. Not every cry means “I’m hungry” and plenty of babies will eat if its offered to them as long as they aren’t full. If it were me, I’d wake him for a brief feeding right before I went to bed. You might manage to get close to six hours before he wakes for the morning feeding.

And lower your expectations - it was three or four years before we slept through the night reliably every night. When feedings were done it was the middle of the night nightmares. Then the crawl out of the crib stage.

7

Aww. You actually made a little tear form in my eye. He is my fantastic little guy.

Yes, the “small meal” thing has been a thing with him his whole (long!) life. He usually eats 4 to 6 ounces per feeding, adding up to about 28 to 32 ounces per day (including those infernal night feedings). He’s kind of small (not crazily so, but on the small side), and I think his tummy is also kind of small.

As I see WhyNot says on preview, there’s only so much we can do with a small tummy.

And he does sit well with support. He just hasn’t figured out that when there’s nothing behind him, he shouldn’t suddenly and forcefully throw his weight backwards.

I guess a lot of my anxiety comes from the fact that one of my good friends has a baby who was sleeping through the night at three months, crawling at five months, and walking at ten months. That said, Charlie can talk circles around that baby!

8

It’s what all the books say to start with, once they hit approximately 6 months.
Why do you prefer to wait til a year, WhyNot?

9

'Cause I’m a cranky old lady. :wink:

Back when my first was born, in the mists of the early '90’s, it was theorized that many allergies could be avoided by putting off solids and exclusively breastfeeding for a year. While I didn’t manage the breastfeeding part, we did do the no-solids part, because *everyone * in my family has horrid nasal allergies, hay fever, skin allergies and food sensitivities (except me, who was exclusively breastfed for a year). Worked for him, as well.

In the last decade, it’s been found that telling moms to breastfeed for a year is overwhelming and most won’t do it. You get more moms trying breastfeeding at all if you tell them they only need to do it for 6 months. So that what lots of agencies have switched to. The fact that 12 months is still developmentally and nutritionally superior hasn’t changed, just that the written goals have. You get more funding if 70% of your moms reach your goal, even if it’s done by moving the goalpost.

Also, in my work as a newborn nanny and babysitter, I’ve seen a whole lot of 6 month old babies who weren’t really ready for solids - which you can tell by watching them try to work with a spoon (not holding it, but how their mouths handle it). Do they suck at the spoon? Or push it away with their tongues? Or spit out more than they swallow? Then they’re not, IMHO, ready for solids, physiologically speaking. Their bodies are trying to prevent choking by getting the choking hazard out. Do their diapers suddenly stink to high heaven when they start solids? Then they’re not digesting what you’ve giving them. Stools shouldn’t stink all that much, unless something doesn’t agree with you or you’re sick.

How do you know when they’re ready? When they start grabbing stuff off your plate, watching you eat, and making chewing movements mimicking yours. If that happens to be 6 months - great! Go for it and have fun. But it’s usually more like 9-10 months or even later, in my experience. Think about the cavebaby - the finest his food was ground was mom chewing it into a lumpy paste before spitting it into his mouth. That perfectly smooth puree of jarred baby food is not “natural” - it’s us trying to get them to eat too soon because it’s fun and cute.

Not to mention that jarred pureed babyfood tastes like ass. My 2 year old’s first experience with jarred baby food was about three weeks ago, when one of my babysitting clients showed up with jars of organic peach something oatmeal for her kid. To not rock the boat, I took it and gave him some at lunchtime. Of course, my daughter wanted to eat what he was having. I gave her a bite, and she made the funniest face I’ve seen and proclaimed it “yuck!” and went back to her tuna crackers and carrots while he sort of half-heartedly finished the jar. Thank goodness the mom agreed to let me make him real food! He’s having a ball now, and thinks steamed smooshed sweet potatoes with homemade whole milk yogurt are the shizzle! (I make the yogurt 'cause it’s easy and cheaper and babysitting a baby and two toddlers, we eat a whole lot of it, not because I’m insane hippie mom, I swear!)

The rice cereal is pushed because it’s so “easily digested” and it’s hypoallergenic. Very few babies are allergic to rice cereal. Because there’s nothing, nutritionally speaking, to it. The bran is removed, the rice is cooked to all heck and then dried and flaked. It’s just simple carbs (also known as “sugars”), wetted down with water or milk. I just don’t see the point of offering empty calories to tiny tummies. Get some fats, vitamins and protein in there while you’re taking up valuable space!

Empty calories, stretching the stomach beyond it’s natural capacity and eating when you’re not hungry for food - sounds like everything the diet articles tell you not to do, doesn’t it? Why set it up so that’s what an infant’s body thinks is normal?

10

Chiming in with the “Every baby is different”. My mom had 4 kids:

1 & 3 developed fairly quickly: faster walker & talker.
2 & 4 took longer in walking and talking
2 & 3 were the hardest to get to sleep and were quite fussy
1 took the longest to potty train (I won’t tell you who #1 was)

So no pattern to be discerned, not even later kids where Mom would’ve had
more experience.

11

I know the books say not to do it… and I understand that… but I’ve also had two kids, plus my self, my sister and all my cousins did the same thing. The last bottle you give him at night, put about 1 1/2 to 2 scoops of mixed grain cereal in there with the milk/formula. You might have to look for a nicely accomodating nipple or modify one slightly so it won’t get clogged. It really seems to work for getting a nice stretch of sleep. The anti-regurgitation variety of formula has rice starch already added to make it thicker, that helps too. My son is one year now and actually slightly under weight… but he slept through the night starting at 6 months. ;>

We also breast fed/Pumped for the first 6 months and he was Way ready to eat some solids at about 6 1/2 months. My family is full of early eaters with no allergies. knocks on wood

12

I feel your pain. My son is 10 1/2 months old and he still wakes at least once at night, and he’s not even hungry. I guess he just wants the company. Not being the types to let him cry it out (we tried once, and he has more staying power than we do - 3+ hours!), we usually just grab him and bring him to bed with us. Everyone who’s anti-co-sleeping tells me what a horrible idea this is, but so far it’s worked for us. He just got over a bout of tonsilitis, so I felt really lucky that he could sleep with us. And when he’s healthy, he gradually sleeps longer and longer in his crib until he spends a full night there - or at least until 3:30 or 4 a.m., which is about the same thing for him.

Just like everyone else here, I don’t think you should worry. Plus, just wait until Charlie does sleep through the night! If you’re anything like me and my husband, his NOT waking up will have you running into his bedroom at 2 a.m. to check on him.

13

Not a mommy, but a supportive big sister, godmother, and auntie, who had her godson living with us for the first six months of his fussy little life. (Love ya, sweetie, but you were a challenge.) For him, and for nearly all my friends and acquaintances who had this trouble, it was a feeding issue, so I support you and your partner in exploring those options. Good luck.

I personally have no children because I like sleep. :smiley:

14

Kid Kalhoun walked at about 7.5 months, but I realize that was very early. Also, he had a hard time with sleeping through the night (until he was about 2). I started giving him cereal and it helped immensely. He was (and still is) a big eater, and the cereal was just what he needed to get a decent night’s sleep.

15

Thanks for the answer WhyNot! I completely understand where you are coming from.
The info the health region here gives is to start with the single grain cereals (rice, barley and oats) right around 6 months and then once the baby is good with those to move into fruits and veggies and even meats. Even with all the additional foods, they still advocate that breast milk/formula is the baby’s primary nourishment for another few months at least.

We actually just gave our little one her first rice cereal yesterday. She had been showing signs of being ready (waking through meals she used to sleep through, “air chewing” while we eat, has good head control, and even hold a spoon -not that she gets it anywhere near her mouth) and it’s going okay. She’s not sure what’s going on, but she certainly doesn’t hate it.

16

If it makes you feel any better, my littlest boy will turn 1 in just over a week and gets up at least once a night for a bottle (hmmm, maybe that won’t make you feel better). He’s a huge eater and eats mucho food during the day, but he still needs that little bit during the night.

By the way, I’m of the WhyNot school of feeding and we only gave pureed foods (no rice cereal) for about a week starting at about 7.5 months. He decided he wanted more control over the feeding process (and I decided I didn’t want mushed up avocados all over my house) and we went to finger foods only. He still only has two teeth, but he can eat a non-cut-up banana with ease. He’s now starting to experiment with the spoon more and can even eat yogurt by himself without covering all the nearby surfaces. For dinner, he eats what we eat, cut into baby-sized pieces (with hard-to-chew stuff, like steak, omitted).

17

Is he cutting new teeth?
My 9 month old has 8 teeth and it seemed like every time he was cutting a new one I could expect a few consecutive nights of multiple wake-ups.

18

8 teeth?!? Yowza. That’s very impressive. My little one just has two. Another good example of how all babies are different, I guess.

19

I’m not a Mom, but to show just how different babies can be, my sister never crawled. Not even a few feet. She would get up on hands and knees and do that rocking back and forth thing kids do, but she could never get going. After a few weeks or so of randomly trying it, she finally gave that up. She pulled herself up on the coffee table and started walking. (Not perfect, not steady, not more than a few feet at a time, but she’s the only baby I know of that never crawled even a little bit).

Don’t worry (I know, I know :wink: ) . Don’t panic. If the doctor says he’s fine, then he’s fine. I’ve watched a lot of children in my family grow up (I’m the oldest child/grandchild/niece, etc) and they all did this stuff when they were good and well ready and not a second before.

20

Well, our daughter is almost 17 months old and most nights still wakes up at least once. Probably NOT what you want to hear but it’s the truth. We belong to WhyNot’s school of thought - we make any nighttime encounters VERY boring, dark and quiet - there is really no incentive for her to wake up unless she is hungry or has had a diaper leak.

I belong to a pretty decent parenting message board and there are many stories of babies and kids who don’t sleep through the night, so you are not alone.

Sophia didn’t sit on her own consistently until she was 8 1/2 months old. We practiced a lot with her on our bed, we have a pillow-top mattress so it had lots of “give”, which gave her a bit of support when she was sitting. Plus if she fell backwards we had no worries.

Other milestones:
She rolled from her back to her tummy until 7 months.
She rolled from her tummy to her back at 8 1/2 months.
She pushed herself into a sitting position on her own at 11 months.
She belly-crawled from 10 months to 13 months.
She started reliably hands-and-knees crawling at 13 months.
She started walking at 15 months.

If you’re seriously worried about your son’s development, here is a link to a site where you can participate (anonymously) in a study by filling out an Ages & Stages Questionnaire - they mail you their analysis of your answers. ASQ
Once you finish the study there are also pdf documents of ideas for playtime that I really appreciate, as a first-time mom who really has no idea what she’s doing. :slight_smile: