Last throes, and all that?
Big Seizure tonight:
Government Seizes WaMu and Sells Some Assets
Isn’t morals, tis money that saves.
I’m still stunned about McCain’s plan. Let’s argue that he was right about tax exemptions and deregulation–according to recent Gallup polls, people don’t want deregulation. They’re worried about their money and their futures. How could he possibly think introducing this plan made any kind of sense? I’m asking for reals here. I want to know.
I don’t know that McCain has the nerve to turn down the consensus plan. On the other hand, supporting it may cost him a lot of support from his extreme base. His best bet may be to bring in Palin. Of course, that raises the risk that the congress members may discover that she’s none too bright (we really don’t have an answer on that yet) and certainly that she’s not well informed. But she has a lot more traction with the far right than does McCain.
But I really don’t think McCain wants to be remembered as the guy who brought on the Depression of 2008, and that’s the risk he runs if he torpedoes the bill.
This was probably not the best idea McCain ever had.
Man, this thread is hilarious. Watching the flips and twists of partisan spin is very entertaining.
Let’s see if I have the scenarios right:
**
- The deal gets done.**
This means McCain wasn’t needed, and it was all grandstanding. McCain’s a bad guy.
2. The deal doesn’t get done.
McCain sabotaged it. McCain’s a bad guy.
3. Democrats Balk
McCain injected politics by coming back. McCain’s a bad guy.
**
4. Republicans Balk**
They’re giving McCain cover for his trip. So McCain’s responsible. McCain is a bad guy.
Did I leave any possibilities out?
In the meantime, people with a straight face are portraying Barney Frank and Chris Dodd as heroes. These two people are more responsible than anyone else in government for this crisis in the first place. Barney Frank gets over 50% of all his funding from the financial industry. Chris Dodd is the #1 recipient of money from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Both of them are in charge of powerful banking and finance committees. In their roles as such, they have actively blocked all attempts to do something about this problem. Frank called the White House’s repeated pleas for new regulation “inane”. Here’s what he had to say about it in 2003, when the Bush Administration called for reform and described the risk of a situation exactly like the current one happening:
You can read about it in that tool of the right wing press, the New York Times.
Frank has uttered statements just like this repeatedly since, including just last year when Frank not only said that Fannie and Freddie were ‘fundamentally sound’, but even if they were to collapse there was no chance in hell that Congress would bail them out, so taxpayers shouldn’t worry. To Frank, attempts to reform Fannie and Freddie were Republican conspiracies to keep homes out of the hands of poor people and minorities. And of course, the PAC money helps, too.
Chris Dodd was no better. Just last year, Democrats were trying to loosen the purse strings for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, in an attempt to inject more credit ito the housing market. Again, according to the New York Times:
This is just last year. The warning signs were all over the place. And Dodd and Frank were still trying to give Fannie and Freddie more rope to hang themselves and American taxpayers with.
The most shameful thing about all this is that these two clowns are still being listened to at all. They have been utterly wrong in just about everything they’ve said on this issue for the last decade.
Now this takes the cake, and it is a lie. ( 
Portal players will get it)
One big lie now is that he did not stop the campaign, besides continuing to advertise his campaign really continues but now it is with the focus to appear as the savior of the economy, this also gives McCain free publicity, just because he is a bastard on this it does not mean that he is a fool when going forward with this idea, unfortunately:
The big error IMO: If the report is accurate this means that he is favoring the worse plan that will benefit the big business and to offer less oversight, the opposite of what the majority of the people thinks should be done and the reason why they are protesting: giving what amounts to a blank check to this administration in a rushed way is bananas.
You repeat this like if it was a big discovery or an impressible point, when I consider how fear and other tactics were used to pass FISA amendments that were what Bush wanted, the lack of a similar effort in reigning this then does sound to me like just butt covering by the Republicans.
And just to be fair I do not see the democrats being all innocent here, but it is really silly to deny who had the power to prevent this in this decade.
So, you’re going to deny that Barney Frank has been the despot of the House, a velvet fist in an iron glove…
You got to love this guy.
I don’t know what the hell McCain is trying to do. How is he asking for tax cuts and deregulation with a straight face?
This is credit market problem. If there is a hint of deregulation, or bailout gets stalled, the market will freak out come Monday.
Oh, please. Shall we just file this thread under the same category as your declaration several years ago that Hillary running for prez was nothing more than a Republican’s wet dream?
Look. Why is everyone assuming that the “deal” is good? You seem to be more worried about who is scoring political points than about what is actually good for the country. None of us is knowledgeable enough to understand the economic implications of this rush to bail out Wall Street. I’m not on board with this legislation and the fact that someone is slowing it down is a good thing, if you ask me.
Sam, I don’t agree. Reform != regulation. In fact, reform is a very nebulous term; it’s one that’s easy to throw around, but not so easy to define. I recgnize that McCain apparently tried to sponsor additional regulation for Fannie and Freddie in 2005, and that’s to his credit, but his over arching history has been deeply in favor of deregulation.
Had McCain does as Obama asked in the first place, and issued a joint statement as to the solution they would like to have seen implemented - i.e. allowing some oversight, allowing the US government to get some sound assets in return for the capital infusion, limiting executive golden parachutes, and making sure that the money was used at least in part to help floundering owners to refinance in a way to retian their homes - I believe that both would have received credit for helping, without castigation. It is, after all, about what both candidates were suggesting.
As it is, McCain’s “heroic” ride into Washington may (we’ll never know for sure) have provided a focal point around which the far right rebellion against this program could coalesce. The Dems and Repubs on the relevant committees were in essential agreement early this afternoon. They went into the White House fairly united. They came out with a fair degree of division. While I’m not going to claim that this is absolutely McCain’s fault, I can’t help but feel post hoc, propter hoc.
The Democrats had wanted a bi-partisan bill, and had wanted it badly. The president and Paulson are desperately begging for this bill to pass. I think Obama is probably taking the view point that if this is what the Senate Finance Committee recommends, he’ll go along, especially once it’s drafted, and he and his economic advisors have had time to review it.
McCain, however, seems to be viewing this pretty much solely with an eye to the political impact. Stalling it may lose him independents, but supporting it may lose his base. On the other hand, his base hasn’t got much of any place else to go. And McCain has mastered one thing during this campaign - changing the subject.
I’m certainly not going to blame any congresscritter, including John McCain if this passes, but unless he manages to bring the conservative base around, he gets no credit from me either. If it fails, it may be arguable that one of the reasons is because McCain insisted on inserting himself into a process in which he was not needed or particularly wanted, except for his vote. It seems highly unlikely that, after the House and Senate committees have been laboriously hammering this out for seven straight days of long hours, that the Republicans are going to be able to craft an alternative quickly enough to meet the urgency we are repeatedly being told is required, especially if, as I seem to be getting the idea of, it has extra provisions for even more deregulation.
In short, I think you’re setting up a straw man.
It’s McCain that’s trying to score political points. Obama hasn’t tried to play any political games with this deal.
You keep thinking, Diogenes. That’s what you’re good at.
Dodd and Frank wanted to use the FMs to buy up troubled mortgages in order to free up capital and improve liquidity in the credit markets. That sounds exactly like what is probably going to happen with the bailout.
You got everything right, except that it’s not spin. McCain is not needed and he can only make things worst by coming to Washington. All he can do is stall a much needed swift bailout plan.
What can he really do to make it better? The bill was written without him anyway. He can either agree or object to it. But McCain hasn’t really said anything up to this point that shows he understands the situation or that he knows what to do about it.
I don’t know if Obama knows what to do about the situation either, but maybe that’s why he’s letting the Secretary of Treasury, the Chairman of the Federal Feserve, and the Chairmen of Banking and Finance Committees handle it.
Sam be honest and serious here.
There were negotiations in progress that were reaching a bipartisan agreement. What was needed was for the the Presidential contenders to try to remove the partisanship out of it further and issue a joint statement that was supportive of that process. What has happened?
At a point as the negotiations were reaching a final form McCain crash lands in, politicizes the process perhaps irrevocably, knocks all the pieces off the table, campaigns on the issue shamelessly, and tries to paint himself as the process’ savior.
This may be a good outcome for those who believe that nothing should be done and that having congress embroiled in a partisan impasse instead of passing any version of the bill is the better outcome … and there are some who so believe … but the rest of us should be scared about how he has sacrificed our economy, hell, put the world’s economy at risk, in order to try to score a few political points.
Yes.
5. There is no consensus in committee, no progress is being made, and McCain wades in with rolled up shirt sleeves, and helps get the job done
This is the only scenario in which McCain is going to look good. He decided that the 97 senators who aren’t involved in this election were unable to handle the situation on their own. He decided that John McCain, who is admittedly not an expert in economic matters, nor is he involved in the committees that are involved with this legislation, John McCain’s presence was crucial to Git-R-Done. He has injected himself into this process, if it falls apart it’s going to reflect poorly on him, and he only has himself to blame. Obama has deliberately and publicly been hands off, because he knows that to inject the presidential candidates into this situation is going to politicize it.
From here: Bailout deal breaks down; Paulson back to Capitol
“Meanwhile McCain, who dramatically announced Wednesday that he was suspending his campaign to deal with the economic crisis, stayed silent for most of the session and spoke only briefly to voice general principles for a rescue plan.”
Thank God for John McCain rolling up his sleeves and sitting there like a bump on a log.
The utter irony of this campaign is killing me. This morning the radio was reporting on how McCain had suspended his campaign, flown to Washington, met with the House republicans, then sat silently while the House republicans threw a hissy fit that derailed the bailout talks.
But at least McCain hadn’t said anything to link himself with the House republicans that had thrown a monkey wrench into his stated goal for coming to Washington. He’d just “listened to their concerns.”
Next commercial on? A McCain campaign ad: “John McCain and his congressional allies…” snerk.
And yet, Frank still blames him:
I’m starting to think its the ***Democrats ***who are actually grand standing. First announcing a deal before one was even close, then announcing to the press at every second that it’s McCain’s fault, when he hasn’t actually even done anything yet.
Knock me over with a molecule.