I wonder how Inspector Frank Luger is doing with his Philipino bride, Perlita? (Barney Miller)
I derided his choice of a “mail order bride” when it was happening. I thought it foolish, and destined for failure. I married a woman of my own social matrix, with similar background, and education. Thirty years later, I have a nasty relationship with an ex wife, and he is sailing the high seas with his family.
You barely know how your own choices will end, you certainly don’t know anything about how someone else’s choices will end.
Tris
[nitpick]It’s Filipino.[/nitpick] [Filipino Doper]
This thread leads me to wonder how John Carter of Mars’s friend Bubba’s been doing…
Thanks for linking to that thread, jayjay. I was just going to mention it but had no idea where it was. I recall it had a good discussion of mail-order brides.
[doublenitpick]She’s Filipina. [/doublenitpick]
This makes me think of something from my college decision theory classes–usually, a good choice will lead to a good outcome, and a bad choice will lead to a bad outcome. But, sometimes, a bad choice will lead to a good outcome, and unfortunately, sometimes a good choice will lead to a bad outcome. The outcome doesn’t necessarily indicate whether the original choice was a good one or a bad one.
It looks like your buddy made a “bad choice” and got a good outcome. I’m happy for him.
The writer of the linked article is apparently coming from the opinion that people get married purely for what they can get out of it — the “What’s in it for me?” But frankly, there are those who go into marriage thinking about what they can give to their partner. Your marriage is going to be much more successful, I think, if both partners are more interested in “what can I do for him/her” instead of “what is he/she going to do for me”.
But in American culture, a “giving” man is seen as weak. We’re supposed to be macho predators, dammit! We’re supposed to take! So when an American woman meets a giving man, she thinks he’s a wimp, and she isn’t interested. Besides, if he isn’t an acquisitive predator, he probably doesn’t make enough money to support her in the manner she’s been taught she should be supported.
Some men just want a woman who will treat them with common human respect.
And power imbalances? I’d ask, what place does “power” have in a marriage partnership anyway?
My landlady in Miami, Mama, was from Jamaica. Her mother (who had 14 kids, from at least 6 different fathers, and for some she wasn’t sure of the parenthood) died when Mama was 13. Her eldest sister, 17, took care of her in the best way she could: found her “a good man” (defined as “didn’t beat me up, didn’t have other women, didn’t even drink!”), 30 at the time. This man died at 33, leaving a 16yo widow who moved to Jersey with one of her elder brothers; after some time she met a man and married him. This second marriage allowed her to get her citizenship faster and bring her children to live with them.
Did she love either husband when she married them? No. But she got out of each marriage what she wanted to get. And anybody who thinks she should have starved it out is welcome to kiss my ass and hers both.
Two of my brother’s friends are evident immigrants: one from China, one from the Ukraine. The Chinese came at age 20, the Ukrainian at 18; both without a word of Spanish; both have been in the country for over 4 years. The Ukrainian already spoke English and some French and got a job as a hotel maid where she is now one of the receptionists. She’s got the Spanish government’s official language diplomas for both English and French; she’s now taking German lessons. My brother almost got into a fight recently when some asshole saw these girls with their group and snorted some snotty remark about “mail order whores”.
I’ve been lurking for a long long time and this thread made me decide to register for my trial. I am an American man who is married to a foreign-born woman.
First, it is not an abusive relationship. I have never hit her, except that on rare occasions she is spanked. Never in anger, purely as punishment, and with her consent as she understands and accepts the necessity.
Second, there is a large age difference. But the fact is that youth is something that is more highly valued in women than in men. In most parts of the world, women are comfortable marrying a man who is older than them, particularly if he is financially successful.
Third, I value the fact that she has a more traditional view of male/female relations. For example, she understands that I love her even if I flirt with or fool around with another woman. At the same time, she is completely loyal to me and wouldn’t dream of flirting with another man. In my experience, most American women have a hard time understanding that men have difficulty being satisfied with relations with just one woman.
What I think is creepy is to judge other peoples’ relationships when both parties to the relationship accept and embrace the relationship.
Well, oldmanwinter sounds like a troll.
Anyway, there was a story of a guy running for senate in Maryland who had a mail order bride. Damn if I can find the story, but as I recall. . .this woman didn’t willingly enter into this.
Some man in her home country (eastern Europe) sold her to this man in the US. He basically then beat her and raped her and told her, “this is how it works in this country”.
Unquestionably, she was lower educated from a different social class and the power differential in that relationship was off the chart.
There are probably happy mail order bride couples in the US, but with this kind of thing going on. . .well, this is one case of throwing the baby out with the bath water that I don’t mind.
And anyway, the “baby” seems to be some social misfit pissed off he can’t meet a chick the right way so he has to order one through mail so she has no choice once she actually arrives.
Who’s benefiting from mail order brides anyway? A guy so charming that he can’t find a woman to marry if she has to actually, you know. . .*meet *him first. Pardon me while I wipe away my tear for him.
Were you a guest on Dr. Phil a couple months ago…
:dubious:
:dubious: :dubious:
It’s not like I run around cheating on her left and right. But the fact is that something like 70% of husbands stray once in a while. Why should a brief indiscretion that really doesn’t harm anyone ruin a perfectly good relationship?
Many Americans seem to have this fantasy of 100% lifelime monogamy that really is unrealistic and runs counter to thousands of years of evolution.
So you would be perfectly fine with her cheating, right? I’m asking seriously.
OK, based on the thread contributions so far, am I right or wrong about this: The typical mail-order-bride shopper must be either so socially stunted as to have no other viable options, or so medieval in their attitudes about geneder roles their only hope of fulfillment is to import from the impovershed Third World?
No, and I’ll admit that I have a double standard. I think that most women, and certainly my wife, can be happy with just one man.
Wow…another thread on mail order brides and I actually have real life experience on this!
In the past, I was basically ‘pro’ the whole situation - if it helped these women move forward into a better economic situation. I thought there might be some older, nice men who just didn’t want to play the dating game.
Of course, that was until an Uncle of mine started doing the Russia circuit. Bitter, 50, three kids and he only wants a 20-some year old. He has dumped women here for being ‘too old’ at 35-40.
The kicker is that he doesn’t want the 20 year old Russian girl to want any compensation from him. They are tossed aside if they ask for any ‘gift’.
Also, he has mentioned that he’s specifically doing the mail order bride thing (he calls it international dating) as he’s looking for a girl with ‘traditional values’, when he himself is the last man on earth one would expect to say that due to all the drugs, parties, illegitimate kids etc…
So far his search for true love continues.
So, basically, I agree in general about the worrisome power situation laid out by the person getting pitted. It can be a bad situation. While reading I wondered what the stats were: how many has it helped financially, how many left worse home situations, what is the percentage of those abused, what is the divorce rate etc…
This doesn’t mean that there aren’t good outcomes, and there must be other men who aren’t as…course…about the whole situation who may actually want to form a connection and help these women, who aren’t *all about * the hot, young flesh with no intention of helping out in return.
Honestly, I think that’s a good idea for avoiding scammers. If you do a web search for “lonely hearts scam,” you will see that this is a big problem.
Be generous with the woman and her family, but not at the beginning of the relationship. Especially if she asks for gifts up front.
Please believe that I mean no disrespect when I say: you really need to get out more.