Ban "imports of brides," you say?

The BBQ Pit
41

[QUOTE=oldmanwinter]
No, and I’ll admit that I have a double standard. I think that most women, and certainly my wife, can be happy with just one man.
[/QUOTE]

Isn’t it just so wonderfully convenient that your reasoning (more men commit adultery than women, therefore it’s perfectly reasonable for you to cheat, but not your wife) makes it just fine for you to do something to her that you’d not accept her doing to you.

There’s fuck all wrong with open relationships, but having one rule for you and one for her is hypocrisy. Attempting to pretend otherwise through a combination of fuck-witted logic and “traditional” values is frankly just a pitiful attempt at kidding yourself.

42

[QUOTE=Trunk]
And anyway, the “baby” seems to be some social misfit pissed off he can’t meet a chick the right way so he has to order one through mail so she has no choice once she actually arrives.

Who’s benefiting from mail order brides anyway? A guy so charming that he can’t find a woman to marry if she has to actually, you know. . .*meet *him first. Pardon me while I wipe away my tear for him.
[/QUOTE]

I’m sorry. Do people actually choose to be socially inept or lacking in self-confidence?

I happen to be both. I’ve tried as hard as I can to change, yet I cannot. Aside from a now-defunct marriage to a woman who was possibly more confused and shy than myself, I’ve been on plenty of first dates with women who were, perhaps, fooled into them by my good looks. I’ve never been on a second date, though.

Trouble is, socially inept people who may be compatible rarely interact with each other, because, well, they’re socially inept. And every time people like me get shot down by a more socially capable person, we can’t help but retreat even further into their sofas and computer chairs, making matters even worse.

Anyway, from what I understand, the person does actually have to fly to Russia and meet these women before they get married. It’s not like they’re shipping women over from Moscow in crates with a Justice of the Peace waiting at the docks.

I make no excuses for abusive assholes who choose the mail-order bride route because they want nothing more than a subservient doormat as a wife. They are scum, plain and simple.

In a position such as mine, however, given a few dozen more consecutive rejections and a bit more financial security, I could see myself heading down that path.

Some may call that pathetic, but according to society’s standards I’m pathetic to begin with, so what would I have to lose?

Not everyone can be Prince Charming, but that doesn’t mean that those of us who aren’t (yet are kind, decent people otherwise) deserve to live the rest of our lives under the burden of crushingly oppressive lonliness.

43

[QUOTE=Gary Kumquat]

There’s fuck all wrong with open relationships, but having one rule for you and one for her is hypocrisy. Attempting to pretend otherwise through a combination of fuck-witted logic and “traditional” values is frankly just a pitiful attempt at kidding yourself.
[/QUOTE]

As I said before, what I think is creepy is to judge other peoples’ relationships when both parties to the relationship accept and embrace the relationship.

44

[QUOTE=oldmanwinter]

Third, I value the fact that she has a more traditional view of male/female relations. For example, she understands that I love her even if I flirt with or fool around with another woman. At the same time, she is completely loyal to me and wouldn’t dream of flirting with another man. In my experience, most American women have a hard time understanding that men have difficulty being satisfied with relations with just one woman.
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So basically, it’s okay for you to cheat on her, but she’s not allowed to even flirt?

Yeah, you’re a real prince-she really lucked out!

:rolleyes:

Oh, and you spank her for punishment? Riiiiiight. If you’re not an outright troll, you’re a sick bastard. I hope you find out your kids aren’t really your’s and that she takes your sorry loser ass for all you’re worth.

Yeah sure. Women who accept that their husbands treat them shitty isn’t creepy-but judging him for being an asshole is.

45

[QUOTE=neutron star]
Not everyone can be Prince Charming, but that doesn’t mean that those of us who aren’t (yet are kind, decent people otherwise) deserve to live the rest of our lives under the burden of crushingly oppressive lonliness.
[/QUOTE]

It sounds like you’re consciously saying, “even though I can’t find a woman here who likes me, I can find a woman in another country who is so destitute she has to be with me, and then she won’t have the choice.” Seriously. Is that it?

What do you figure. . .that the first date is a hurdle, but if she sees you every day for a month, she’ll uncover the hidden beauty within?

None of it makes any sense to me.

What happens when she gets here and doesn’t want to sleep with you? Doesn’t want to marrry you? Figures out a month in that she made the worst decision of her life?

Do you think, “oh, I guess it didn’t work out,” and buy her a plane ticket home? Or is that it? Your loneliness is cured, so it’s all hunky dory.

46

Durn it, I was just about to beat the horse, then it died. Farging work, getting in the way of some perfectly lame sniping.

47

Tris,

You have a very good point. A number of Indian coworkers of Brainiac4 have returned home to get married. They’ve never met their bride before, she was chosen by their families or by a matchmaker.

Even for us, love matches are relatively recent. Stephanie Coontz points out that they weren’t economically feasible until the mid-1700s in “Marriage: A History.”

So while I am delighted I chose my husband for love and compatibility, I’m not going to knock alternative ways of getting a spouse - they are more tried and true over the course of human history than mine. The resulting marriages may not always be compatible or happy, but not all love matches work out for the best either.

48

[QUOTE=Trunk]
It sounds like you’re consciously saying, “even though I can’t find a woman here who likes me, I can find a woman in another country who is so destitute she has to be with me, and then she won’t have the choice.” Seriously. Is that it?
[/quote]

Not at all. I don’t want to force anyone into anything. It’s your condescending attitude toward those of us who aren’t blessed with your social graces that grates on my nerves.

Maybe, maybe not. If not, I’d have no intention of forcing myself upon her. She could go back home and I’d accept the financial loss.

I’d buy her a plane ticket home. I wouldn’t want to be in a relationship with someone who doesn’t like me.

Cultural attitudes vary throughout the world. What I may not find in an average American woman, I may find in someone from another country.

49

It is not a condescending attitude towards someone with fewer social graces.

It’s a condescending attitude towards someone with fewer social graces who instead of accepting it, forces a woman (most likely poor and uneducated) into a relationship with a completely skewed balance of power.

Sure, neutron star is the exception. He’s just a nice guy who wants to ship her over and give it a month. You know, see how it works out. If she doesn’t like it, ship her back, and try again. It’s that easy, right?

http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/anderson/brides/pg1.html

50

I’m not about forcing anyone to do anything! Your link is to an inflammitory site that exposes the dregs of our society, which I had condemned in my previous post in this thread. It doesn’t say a single fucking word about shy, pacifistic, lonely men of roughly the same age as their potential mates. Like me.

And, like I said (but you refused to acknowledge), these men do meet with their potential mates in their home countries before deciding on anything. You keep disingenuously making it out to be something far different.

51

Oh, and FWIW, I don’t even want power in a relationship. I strive for equality, as I did in my first marriage. Were I to find a mail-order bride, I’d do my best to educate her in the ways of the Western world. Believe me, don’t believe. Frankly, I don’t care. I know what’s in my heart, and that’s all that matters.

52

For my money,** oldmanwinter** shows himself to be not only a toad and (hopefully) a troll, plus he’s also the poster-child for the anti-mail-order-bride movement. As well as generally a fucktard-to-the-max.

53

Considering the rapidity of his banning, I’d say troll or sock puppet. At any rate, his abhorrent views are gone from this message board.

54

[QUOTE=MGibson]
Maybe you should read the article again because they’re talking about the typical brides one gets from a mail order bride service and not foreigners in general. Monty, she’s not saying it’s bizarre to want to marry a foreign woman, but it’s bizarre for a man to deliberately seek out women who are impoverished and likely less educated than themselves to make into a wife.
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[shrug] What’s wrong with that? Not everybody wants to marry an equal. There are several models for marriage and equal partnership is only one of them.

55

I don’t think much about inport brides as an idea, it does seem very open to being bad for the woman.
That said, I am aware of a fairly large number of Russian ex-import-brides who now live legally in Silicon Valley are well educated and in many cases looking for husbands of their own choosing. Now Eastern European/Russian women (and often also Indian women) are frequently well or very well educated, so they are not likely to fall into a bad situation nor be kept as subservient maids. It does seem to me that they are all doing well here, and that considering the extreme sexual repression common in their home countries have much better futures now that they have gained legal status in USA through the system of male-order-brides.

It should also be repeated that marrying the person you chose to marry is a fairly recent idea, and considering devorce rates, it does not seem to be a particularly effective way of finding a long term partner.

56

[QUOTE=oldmanwinter]
No, and I’ll admit that I have a double standard. I think that most women, and certainly my wife, can be happy with just one man.
[/QUOTE]
Well, I think you’ve proven all that needs to be said about your credibility.

57

[QUOTE=fluiddruid]
Well, I think you’ve proven all that needs to be said about your credibility.
[/QUOTE]

Well, I think you’ve proven all that needs to be said about the doctrine of not taking cheap shots at people who aren’t around to defend themselves.

(Until oldmanwinter registers his next sock, that is.)

58

[QUOTE=Malacandra]
Well, I think you’ve proven all that needs to be said about the doctrine of not taking cheap shots at people who aren’t around to defend themselves.
[/QUOTE]
Either I didn’t notice, or it just happened. But, whatever, you’ve clearly made up your mind about it.

59

[QUOTE=Bippy the Beardless]
It should also be repeated that marrying the person you chose to marry is a fairly recent idea, and considering devorce rates, it does not seem to be a particularly effective way of finding a long term partner.
[/QUOTE]

Indeed, marriage for love seems like a pretty risky idea in general, so much so that it’s a wonder any of us willingly do it. If someone told me there was ten thousand bucks behind a closed door, mine for the taking, but there was also a 50% chance someone lurked inside who was going to knock my block off with bat and steal all my cash from my wallet, leaving me worse off than before, I’d decline the offer. Love ain’t rational, that’s for sure.

But before people could choose to marry for love, could they choose at all? Especially women? People who don’t think they can get out of a relationship, or really can’t, are at risk of suffering a lot of abuse, both emotional and physical, and I think our changing attitudes about the conditions for marriage reflect the changing acceptance of that relationship being a partnership of people with equal privileges. Equality sure doesn’t guarantee happiness, but the lack of it didn’t seem to work out so well either.

60

[QUOTE=Bippy the Beardless]
It should also be repeated that marrying the person you chose to marry is a fairly recent idea, and considering devorce rates, it does not seem to be a particularly effective way of finding a long term partner.
[/QUOTE]

That’s not terribly fair, actually. The era of relatively easy-to-get divorces is even younger than the era of Marrying For Love. If modern divorce had been around in the days of arranged marriages, I would imagine we would be seeing quite different comparison numbers.