baseball: did chan ho park groove the cal pitch?

Factual Questions
1

i didn’t watch tonight’s all-star game, but baseball’s unwritten rules interest me.

the espn boards are up in arms about cal’s home run tonight. a lot of people think he served one up for cal.

my thoughts and questions:

did chan ho park give cal ripken jr. an easy pitch to hit?

what exactly are the unwritten rules when it comes to serving up an easily hittable ball in baseball?

I know that it’s a bit of a tradition to show respect for baseball greats in the twilight of their careers, in games that do not have an impact on the pennant race (and the all-star game qualifies more than any other game). In the late 60s Denny McClain grooved a pitch to Micky Mantle in the mick’s last game at tiger stadium.

During the 1998 home-run chase, there was a bit of controversy when jose lima was accused of grooving a pitch to fellow countryman sammy sosa.

And I know that if I was Chan Ho Park, and Cal Ripken stepped up to the plate in the meaningless all-star game, I certainly would not try to embarrass him, and I would probably give him something to hit out of a show of respect.

For that matter, if i was Bobby Valentine, I would tell Chan Ho Park to give him something to hit. What interests me was a quote from Mike Piazza, who talked to Chan Ho after the home run, and he said that Chan Ho was upset about giving up a home run on his first pitch in the game.

I’m guessing Chan Ho gave him something to hit, and Cal delivered, but Chan Ho was a bit despondent that his fastball down the middle resulted in the worst possible outcome.

Anyway, I’m this game continues to fascinate me, and I’d love to hear your opinions.

2

Balderdash.

It wasn’t a great pitch, but it wasn’t a meatball, either. Ripken just picked a good time to nail one.

My impression is that pitchers almost NEVER groove pitches, ever. For one thing, even a deliberate meatball probably won’t be hit out. For another, these guys are really competitive; it’s unlikely that Chan Ho Park would be willing to be the losing pitcher just to make Cal Ripken look good. Finally, despite its status as an exhibition game, baseball players take the All-Star Game pretty seriously, and genuinely try to win.

3

Ah, these cynical times we live in. Next thing you know, there will be questions about Dale Earnhardt Jr. making up 7 places in a lap and a half, passing around the outside, without drafting, in a restrictor-plate car, to win the first race at Daytona since his father’s death.

No, if Park (who has shown his ability to give up 2 grand slams to the same hitter in the same inning in a game that meant something) had grooved it, he would have made it less obvious than the first freakin’ pitch of the inning. Ripken can still get the job done, don’t forget.

4

I heard a suggestion on a sports radio station the other day that would award home-field advantage in the World Series to the league that wins the All-Star game. I like that suggestion, and I think it would remove some of the doubts about accomplishments like Ripken’s if people KNEW these players were really interested in the game.

5

I believe the pitch was a 93-mph fastball, so even if it was right over the middle of the plate, it wasn’t a given that Ripken would hit it, much less hit it out. Even the big home-run hitters in the previous night’s home-run derby couldn’t always hit the gopher balls thrown to them.

6

I’ve heard this suggestion before, but I don’t understand the reasoning behind it. Why give home-field advantage to a team based on something they have little control over? There doesn’t seem to be a problem with the current practice.

7

[big time hijack]
Damn that was one fast car! I’ve seen Tony Stewart in some incredibly quick cars, Bobby Labonte too. Junior’s car was just damn fast – and for RP racing to boot!
[big time hijack]

8

Here’s an interesting theory on the OP: The only time I ever saw a picther intentionally groove one was the last game at Arlington Stadium, which happened to be George Brett’s last game. In his last at-bat, the Rangers manager sent in Tom Henke to pitch to him, in a non-save situation, (Henke was their closer), to throw fastballs. Henke signaled that’s what he was going to do, and Brett hit the second one past Manuel Lee, who clearly eased up on the play.

Why am I telling you this? The Rangers manager at the time was Bobby Valentine.

9

No cite here, but I seem to remember an interview with Greg Maddux a few year’s back where he recognized that the All-Star game is about hitting and not pitching and that while he didn’t groove every pitch he threw, he wasn’t challenging hitters at all either.

While ballplayers are also certainly competitive, Pete Rose is generally looked down upon for his hard slide in a 1970s AS game when he may have ended the promising career of a young A’s catcher. Again, no cite. Please believe me!

10

Ray Fosse was the catcher, and he did have a lengthy career (mainly with Cleveland) after recovering. There’s no way of knowing how much permanent effect the injury had.

But the play usually is used to illustrate Rose’s competitiveness, in the days when the National Leaguers used to take winning the game more seriously than today.

11

Y’know, we should all pause for a minute and consider this. Yes, it’s rather amazing for a hitter (Tatis, in this instance) to hit two salamis in an inning. But, even more fascinating is for a pitcher to give up two in an inning to the same batter. That means he faced a minumum of 12 batters, and gave up a minimum of 8 runs. Wow.

And, no, I don’t think the pitch was grooved.

12

Strictly speaking, Tatis could have been the first batter he had to face. Therefore, the minimum number of batters he would have needed to face in order to comply with the 2-slams-by-the-same-player-in-the-same-inning criterion is 10. At the same time, he should have allowed a minimum of 11 runs–8 of them earned, for a grotesque ERA of 108!!!

The minimum number of runs allowed–not necessarily earned–would be 11. This would assume he pitched the entire inning up to Tatis’s second slam, which means he had to face at least 13 batters.

13

Hell, I always thought it was written – either in league rules, or standard language in every contract: players shall try their best to win at all times. Practice began in the wake of the Black Sox scandal. I remember this coming up in late '73, as Aaron was closing in on Ruth, and a few pitchers (Andy Messersmith was one) who suggested that if they were given the chance to go down in the record books, they might just take it.

14

You’re forgetting: it was two grand slams. The first batter in an inning cannot hit a grand slam.

15

But what if the bases were loaded when they brought him in? If he was a reliever (and I’m not familiar with the circumstances) the first batter he faced could have hit a grand slam.

Back to Ripken. Cal only had 4 homers before the game. His power is getting suspect. I don’t know if he was thrown a meatball, but Ripken has a history of rising to the occasion. He caught the last out in his only World Series, and more dramatically, he homered in his record tieing and breaking games with regards to the Streak. He seems to come through when he’s on the big stage.

16

So that’s why they’ve been losing

17

Ah, good point.

18

From CBS sportsline:

» April 23rd, 1999: The Cardinals defeat the Dodgers, 12-5, as 3B Fernando Tatis sets a major league record by hitting 2 grand slams in a single inning. His 2 homers came in St. Louis’ 11-run 3rd inning.

Chan Ho Park was strictly a starter in 1999. So he started the inning. My best guess is that Tatis batted 4th and 13th in the inning. Why Park stayed in the game that long is anyones guess.

The OP:

The pitch was a 91 to 93 mph fastball, depending on the report. The players in the HR derby were given intentional gopher balls and they were having a difficult time getting HRs. It is very hard to hit a HR.

Is this question a GQ, or does it belong in IMHO? We have no way of really knowing unless Park gives the answer, and I doubt he will admit it if it were true.

19

Tatis could have been the first batter he had to face…if he had not initiated the inning and had rather entered the game as a reliever. This is why, as I mentioned in my previous post, the MINIMUM number of EARNED runs he would have had to allow in order to achieve compliance with Montfort’s stated criterion is 8, instead of 11 (2 runs scored by Tatis, 3 runs scored by the guys he drove in via his second slam, plus the 3 players that must have scored in-between slams in order to keep the inning alive long enough for Fernando to hit his unprecedented second slam).

Referring you once again to my initial post, if he had started the inning, the minimum number of batters faced would have been 13 rather than 10 (3 before Tatis, Tatis, 8 more batters, Tatis once again, he gets pulled out). Hope this clears it.

Anyhow, had he hit grand slams from both sides of the plate while reciting aloud “Casey at the Bat” and trying to figure out where on earth is Mudville located, then–and only then–would it have actually been an interesting accomplishment to talk about. :slight_smile: