Finally had to delurk and register to see if anyone can put me out of my misery by solving these baseball puzzles put forth by Robert Ripley in one of his cartoons many moons ago:
A baseball team can make one double, two singles, three triples and steal two bases - all in one inning - without scoring a run.
W.Shott of Cleveland pitched a nine-inning game without allowing a hit, or a man to reach first, and his team made no errors yet he lost 1-0.
I presume Ripley answered these puzzles the next day, but I only have this one old cartoon. I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about the rules of baseball but I can’t come up with how either of these is possible. Help!
first batter hits a triple, is thrown out at home
second batter hits a triple, is thrown out at home.
Third batter hits a triple, stays at third.
While forth batter is up, third batter inexplicably runs back to second. which, I believe is (technically) a steal.
Third batter steals third the traditional way.
Fourth batter laces a double, third batter doesn’t leave third base.
(If third batter isn’t credited with stealing second, then fourth batter could now return to first and traditionally steal second)
Fifth batter hits a single and no one moves
Sixth batter hits a single. Third batter breaks his leg running home and collapses on the basepath. After the Sixth batter reaches first, the fourth batter passes the now cripped third batter on the third base line. Three outs, 6 hits, no runs, 3 men LOB.
Perhaps Mr. Shott’s team refused to play the tenth inning and thus forfeited the game 1-0 (only applying the forfeit score to the unplayed 10th inning)?
The answer I heard to this problem is that it was a women’s game (maybe the “he” and “his” are assumed by the reader --I have no access to the original item. Notice that W. Scott’s first name is not specified). No cite or anything.
Is there something an umpire would rule that would award a batter second or third base directly, so that a man was technically never on first base? Then perhaps the baserunner would be balked home?
Yes, are you typing exactly what’s in the cartoon, or what you remember being there?
I can’t find anyone named Shott in the historical stats player locator at mlb.com. There is a pitcher named Gene Schott, who pitched for Cincinatti in the 30’s with several complete games.
The mlb search is moot, of course, if it was a women’s game (also, “. . .or a man to reach first” sounds like a traditional trick in these sorts of matters).
I don’t believe you can run back to another base. I’m not sure, but you may be credited with a hit to the base you reach once action stops, then an appeal play is made in front of you.
If so, then single, steal,steal,triple. Then appeal to home plate umpire single’s runner missed home. Double and another successful homeplate appeal. Then single without double’s hitter scoring. Finally a triple. Play stops and third appeal of first runner missing home.
If the second problem isn’t histrorical, then perhaps Shott pitched a nine-inning game, but it didn’t end in nine innings. I believe there’s also a forfeit rule involving lack of players–if in the top of the tenth Shott is not allowed to throw a pitch due to a lack of players for his side , then it’s a nine inning game, score 1-0.
Oops, I see you answered about ‘his’ actually being there. Also it says he was “of Cleveland,” not that he played for Cleveland. . .could it have been a minor league game. Anyway, I still can’t find him.
In some book of baseball I read when I was young, one chapter was titled “the double no-hit”, or something similar. Both pitchers ptiched no hitters through nine innings. Perhaps Shott lost in extra innings in a game like this.
I once asked if a player on second could steal first in one of the “how many ways to get to first base” threads, and was told that wasn’t legal.
How about single, steal, steal, picked off
triple, picked off
triple, double (player stays on third), single (players stay on second and third), then triple, with the base runners all stuck behind the guy who has been on third, apparently with two broken legs, who gets tagged out as he crawls towards home plate.
Can’t see this happening but don’t see where it would be against the rules (just really bad baserunning) for the first one:
Batter #1 hits a triple. Man on third.
Batter #2 hits a deep shot that #1 thinks might be caught, therefore he waits to tag up. The outfielder doesn’t make the catch, but recovers quickly and throws out #1 at home. #2 stretches to a double on the throw. Man on second.
Batter #2 steals third. Man on third.
Batter #3 hits a deep shot similar to the one that lead to #1 being out. Batter #2 is out at home, and #3 manages to stretch to a triple on the throw home. Man on third.
Batter #4 hits an infield single to third. The thirdbaseman is able to hold the guy on third but the throw to first is a half-step late. Men on first and third.
Batter #4 steals second. Men on second and third.
Batter #5 has another infield single to third, similar to the one above. Bases loaded.
Batter #6 hits a triple. Guy on third thinks it is going to be caught and holds third (forgetting it is already two outs). Guys on second and first can see it isn’t going to be caught and take off. Batter #5 is a very fast runner. Guy on third finally takes off for home but the guy on second is just about on him and the guy on first isn’t too far behind.
Suddenly, the guy on third slips and falls. The guy on second just barely manages to avoid passing him. The guy on first isn’t paying enough attention and runs right past the other two. Third out. But the umpires rules batter #5 was on third before this happened so that batter gets credit for a triple.
Two singles (#4 and #5), one double (#2), three triples (#1, #3, #6) and two steals (#2, #4) and no runs.
Note: I’m not 100% certain that #6 would get credit for a triple in that situation. And that would be some terrible base-running. Maybe Edgar Martinez clones were on third (he was almost thrown out advancing from first to third on a double last week, because he has to run so slowly).
Ah-ha! Jiggs, that may be your answer. As you post it, your puzzle says he threw a nine-inning no-hitter (&c). Doesn’t say the game only lasted nine innings. These days, if you throw a no-hitter and lose it in extra innings, it doesn’t count in the first place, but that wasn’t always the case.
Game is tied after nine. Shott is still the picher of record. In the break between the 9th and 10th inning, Bill Veeck holds a “burn disco” rally that gets out of control.
Umpires declare a forfeit. Other team wins 1-0. But I don’t know if the picher would take credit for the loss (I believe there would be no official stats from the game).
You can most definitely steal a base you have already been on. I’m not going to look up the rule, but it has actually happened in major leagues games at least once. As I recall something to do with setting up a man on 1st and 3rd situation, rather than 2nd and 3rd.
Theory 1) Mr. Shott’s opposing team had a WOMAN on it. And SHE won the game with a home run?
Theory 2) Can a forfeited game be assigned a 1-0 score? Maybe that was the rule years ago? When was the “9-0” convention for forfeited games implemented, and WHY?
BTW: I don’t think Ripley would have said a “nine-inning game” if it extended to extra innings.
