Baseball Question

I know that it’s theoretically possible for an MLB pitcher to throw a no-hitter yet still lose the game (i.e. through walks, errors, hit batters, etc). My question is, has any pitcher ever actually lost a game in which he threw a no-hitter? Name of pitcher, team, and date would be greatly appreciated

Bryn Smith, Expos
vs. Los Angeles Dodgers
August 15, 1985

Dodgers 2
Expos 1

Going by the official Major League Baseball definition of a no-hitter, which is 9 or more innings of no-hit ball, there have been two no-hitters where the team that got no hits won.

April 23, 1964 Ken Johnson of Houston lost a no-hitter to Cincinnati 1-0
April 30, 1967 Steve Barber and Stu Miller combined to no-hit Detroit, but their team, the Orioles lost 2-1. Barber pitched the first 8 2/3 innings. Miller got the last out.

Several pitchers have given up no hits through nine innings, but either lost the game on hits in extra innings or gave up a hit in extra innings.

Most notable was Harvey Haddix of Pittsburgh who in 1959 retired 36 straight Milwaukee Braves before giving up an error, an intentional walk, and finally a home run (later changed to a single) to lose the game 1-0 in 13 innings.

Pedro Martinez pitched nine perfect innings for the Expos in 1994 or 1995, but gave up a hit in the 10th.

Mark Gardner pitched nine no-hit innings for the Expos against the Dodgers in the 1990s also, but lost on a hit in the 10th.

With all due respect to jdl, but Bryn Smith never threw a no-hitter.

There were no no-hitters thrown during the entire 1985 season in fact.

Okay, okay. I lied. Jeeze. I figured it would make the guy happy to have an answer.

You can find a list of no-hitters thrown in Major League Baseball at this site:
http://www.hickoksports.com/history/nohitter.shtml

There weren’t any thrown in 2000.

Bryn Smith did beat the Dodgers 5-2 on August 24, 1985. He gave up four hits in eight innings.

BobT, I know you’re a baseball genius, but you couldn’t possibly know what every pitcher did on every outing of his career. I know foxsports.com/baseball will allow you to check any player’s day by day performance, but they only go back to 1987. How did you find out what Bryn Smith did on 8/24/1985??

Zev Steinhardt

I’m guessing either access to newpapers on microfilm or a big stack of Sporting News.

I have access to a database of LA Times stories, which fortunately goes back to 1985.

There are people who can find out such info right away. You should consult the people at http://www.retrosheet.org

You can download game data from them and if you are so inclined you can manipulate it however you see fit.

However, I’m not that inclined to do that.

Quoth jdl:

It would make the guy happy to have the correct answer. Making up answers just to satisfy people is about as far as you can get from the ideal of eradicating ignorance, which is, after all, the purpose of this site. If you don’t know, then don’t say that you do.

Bob T
I went to the link you posted. I see that they don’t list the no-hitter Andy Hawkins pitched and LOST for the Yankees on July 1, 1990 vs. the White Sox (I got the date from Red Foley’s Cartoon History of Baseball). Any idea why it wouldn’t be listed?

. . . Or at least those of you not too guilty to engage in a bit of nostalgic schadenfreude:

From this site.

'Course, I’m a Yankee fan, so the above is just a faint memory. :stuck_out_tongue:

P.S. - Soup, I think MLB changed the definition of an “official” no-hitter to include the clause that the pitcher must also win the game.

Yes. They did change the rules about what was officially a no-hitter a few years back. They did this retroactively, so no-hitters that met the old standards were wiped away.

Most notably this included no-hitters shortened due to weather, which is good, but also performances like Harvey Haddix, who lost a perfect game in the 13th inning 1-0. Fortunately, we can now just put that performance on a plane on it’s own…

In addition, games where a run was scored (due to walks, errors and other non-hit methods) were eliminated as well.


Yer pal,
Satan

*TIME ELAPSED SINCE I QUIT SMOKING:
Six months, three weeks, two days, 11 minutes and 38 seconds.
8240 cigarettes not smoked, saving $1,030.04.
Extra time with Drain Bead: 4 weeks, 14 hours, 40 minutes.

David B used me as a cite!*

I don’t believe you have to win the game to get credit for a no-hitter. The pitcher or pitchers involved still have to pitch at least 9 innings without and hits and if there are any extra innings, those have to be no-hit innings also.

Andy Hawkins only pitched 8 innings in the game he lost. Matt Young also lost a game in which he gave up no hits, but since he was on the road, he only pitched 8 innings.

There have been four no-hitters that went 10 innings. They have all been in the NL.

Hooks Wiltse of the NY Giants beat the Phillies 1-0 in 1908 in 10 innings. He retired the first 26 batters in a row before he hit the opposing pitcher with a pitch in the top of the 9th.

Fred Toney of Cincinnati threw a 10-inning no-hitter on May 2, 1917. His opponent, Hippo Vaughn of the Cubs, also no hit the Reds for 9 innings, but lost his no-hitter and the game in the 10th. I believe Jim Thorpe broke it up.

Jim Maloney of the Reds threw a 10-inning no-hitter in 1965 and Francisco Cordova and Ricardo Rincon combined on a 10-inning no-hitter for the Pirates in 1997.

How in the world does MLB makes the rule change retroactive? That is like taking away a university diploma because a new course was added after someone graduated. I mean, how stupid can these folks get?

Those asses redefining the official conceptualization of a no-hitter. Damn them!

A no hitter means no hits allowed. It does not mention walks, it does not mention runs. It alludes the absence of hits. Period.
BTW, Satan, why did you take the Yanks off your sig?

An interesting side effect of the removal of no-hitters of less than 9 innings.

The Yankees held the record for being the team that has gone the longest without being no-hit. The last one pitched against them was by Hoyt Wilhelm (I believe it was in 1958, but I’m too lazy to look it up). The streak was broken in the late '80s when Melido Perez pitched a rain-shortened no-hitter against them. However, when Perez’s no-hitter was stricken from the books, the Yankees streak was retroactively reinstated.

Zev Steinhardt

**

Baseball can do anything it wants. Even go on strike several times for no damn good reasons. A retroactive rule change ain’t nothing. Did you know that baseball extended Hack Wilson’s single season RBI record from 190 to 191 just a few years ago (Hack did it in the '30s) because statisticians found an extra RBI somewhere in that seasons that wasn’t counted for some reason?

**

Well, yes. However, with shortened games and frankly poorly pitched and played games where there were numerous walks, errors and runs scored (Is pitching six innings in a rain-shortened game, losing 5-0 with no hits given up but the team made three errors and the opitcher walked six batters, hit another and had two wild pitches really something that deserves to be put on a pedestal?), I can see us redefining the parameters to make it an actual feat again.

You can still say that the pitcher did not give up a hit. He just did not pitch an officially sanctioned “no-hitter.”

**

It was getting old… I change it every so often when the mood strikes me…

BobT

I really do think that the pitcher in a no-hitter cannot give up any runs, which makes winning not an option. They also changed it where it is a complete game, which makes nine innings of no-hit ball in a no decision no longer a no-hitter either.


Yer pal,
Satan

*TIME ELAPSED SINCE I QUIT SMOKING:
Six months, three weeks, two days, 3 hours, 3 minutes and 50 seconds.
8245 cigarettes not smoked, saving $1,030.64.
Extra time with Drain Bead: 4 weeks, 15 hours, 5 minutes.

David B used me as a cite!*

I found an article in the LA Times about the change in the definition of a no-hitter.
It was dated 9/5/91

There isn’t any mention of giving up runs. All the reference sources I see list no-hitters where runs were surrendered. Darryl Kile gave up a run in his no-hitter.

Well, BobT, you might have me on the issue of runs, but I have yet to see an updated list of no-hitters where the team who got no-hit won the game…

Someone ask Cecil?


Yer pal,
Satan

*TIME ELAPSED SINCE I QUIT SMOKING:
Six months, three weeks, two days, 5 hours, 42 minutes and 54 seconds.
8249 cigarettes not smoked, saving $1,031.19.
Extra time with Drain Bead: 4 weeks, 15 hours, 25 minutes.

David B used me as a cite!*

I remember hearing about this game in the news at the time it happened. It just kind of stuck in my brain (I was 9 years old at the time). IIRC, the Cinci pitcher pitched a one hitter in the same game. Talk about a pitcher’s duel…