No-Hitters are Bullshit

In My Humble Opinion
1

Kevin Milwood pitches a no hitter BUT WALKS THREE BATTERS.

As far as I am concerned any one of those three could have gotten a hit off of him.

Also someone almost hit one out but the ball was caught at the wall.

No-hitters get way too much publicity and it seems the pitcher gets all the credit when usually there are some great plays to save the no hitter, yet the fielder is rarely mentioned.

Last year a Dodger pitcher allowed one INFIELD hit and faced the minimum 27 batters yet it was barely publicized because of the one hit, yet Millwood walks 3 and everyone hears about it.

I agree that they are rare so it makes them interesting but save the hoopla for a perfect game, even though they also can be caused by luck.

I read that Don Larsens World Series perfect game had a play where a ball was hit hard and deflected off the third baseman’s foot right to the shorstop who threw him out. Also Mickey Mantle made a great running catch to rob a hitter of an extra base hit.

Now when a pitcher strikes out 20 batters , that is extraordinary.

Any thoughts from other baseball fans?

2

You’re right, but remember, just about every stat represents more than a given player’s objective skill, rather, all of the (internal and external) elements that surround that player, and how they interact with the player, and in turn, how they interact with each other.

Walks- intentional walks ordered by the manager
Strikeout- umpire has a strike zone that changes pitch by pitch
Errors- official scorer has hemorrhoids
Home run- ball hit three feet short of the wall bounces of Canseco’s head and over the fence
Perfect game lost- see above

There are just too many maybes and could’ves to baseball, and to pay them any heed would be missing the point, to put it mildly. Baseball Tonight would be eight hours long, if they covered all the almosts. All we can do is notice what did happen, and recognize that.

And in conclusion, as a Giants fan, F#$% Kevin Milwood.

3

I think “bullshit” is a little harsh.

The story that I read in the paper gave nearly as much attention to Ricky Ledee, the guy who scored the game’s only run AND made the great play you’re thinking of, as to Millwood.

And I can’t recall ever reading a story about a no-hitter where the pitcher didn’t credit his fielders.

4

During the 20th century, 198 no-hitters were pitched in 152,364 regular-season games, meaning there was 1 every 770 games. (Adding in post-season play, we have 199 no-hitters in 153,333 games [1 post-season no-hitter in 969 post-season games during the 20th century (564 World Series, 200 A.L. playoff games, 205 N. L. playoff games)]; counting post-season games, the frequency of a no-hitter is still 1 every 771 games.) Of course, in every game there is a chance for two no-hitters, one by either team. So, for a particular team, we have to cut that probability in half, 1 every 1,540 games, about the equivalent of every nine-and-a-half seasons.

Major League No-Hitters of the 20th Century By Decade
(Games Played/Complete No-hitters of at Least Nine Innings)

1901-10
American League 5,998/12 1 every 500
National League 6,020/ 9 1 every 668
Total 12,018/21 1 every 572

1911-1920
American League 6,031/16 1 every 377
National League 6,035/ 7 1 every 862
Total 12,066/23 1 every 525

1921-30
American League 6,164/ 4 1 every 1,541
National League 6,159/ 4 1 every 1,540
Total 12,323/ 8 1 every 1,540

1931-1940
American League 6,154/ 6 1 every 1,026
National League 6,159/ 4 1 every 1,540
Total 12,313/10 1 every 1,231

1941-50
American League 6,181/ 5 1 every 1,236
National League 6,198/ 7 1 every 885
Total 12,379/12 1 every 1,032

1951-1960
American League 6,183/10 1 every 618
National League 6,189/ 9 1 every 688
Total 12,372/19 1 every 651

1961-70
American League 8,426/14 1 every 602
National League 8,243/20 1 every 412
Total 16,669/34 1 every 490

1971-1980
American League 10,292/13 1 every 792
National League 9,675/15 1 every 645
Total 19,967/28 1 every 713

1981-90
American League 10,951/12 1 every 913
National League 9,386/ 7 1 every 1,341
Total 20,337/19 1 every 1,070
1991-2000
American League 10,874/12 1 every 906
National League 11,046/12 1 every 920
Total 21,920/24 1 every 913
Totals: 1901-2000
American League 77,254/104 1 every 743
National League 75,110/ 94 1 every 799
Total 152,364/198 1 every 770
No-hitters 1973-2000 (era of designated hitter rule):
American League 37 in 30,222 (1 per 816 games)
National League 28 in 28,187 (1 per 1,007 games)

Counting post-season games, the total is 199 no-hitters in 153,333 games during the 20th century-1 every 771 games.

Courtesy of:

Major League No-Hitters of the 20th Century
By Stew Thornley
Halsey Hall SABR Chapter Meeting, October 13, 2001

I disagree that the fielder who makes an outstanding play is rarely mentioned when no-hitters or perfect games are thrown. The fact that they occur on average fewer than three times each season makes it extraordinary.

5

Side-note:

It’s funny to try and explain to ferners how exciting a game can be when nothing happens.

“You mean NOTHING happened?”
“Yep, a no-hitter. It was awesome…”
“Sounds like football (soccer) without all of the action…you 'mericans are strange…”

6

Yes, but the point is that they didn’t get a hit off of him.

Keyword: almost.

That’s the ENTIRE point of baseball! You do realize that some pitchers try to get outs by getting the batter to pop the ball up, or to ground out, don’t you?

7

[Crash Davis]“Strikeouts are boring, besides that, they’re fascist. Throw some ground balls, it’s more democratic.”[/Crash Davis]

Pash

8

Yes, great fielding plays often figure into no-hitters. They figure into ALL games: sometimes you win based on a great catch. Does that mean the win was “bullshit?” No, that’s baseball. Actually, it’s life. :wink:
Sometimes you/your team/a pitcher/whoever gets a good break. He walked 3 hitters and was the recipient of a great play. But he still retired the other 26 and took advantage of those breaks. To say a no-hitter doesn’t count because a few of the 27 outs were tough plays is silly. Likewise, a walk may be as good as a hit in some situations, but it’s not the same. Those batters COULD have gotten hits, but then, so could the 27 he got out. You have to DO something for it to count. :wink:
Facing the minimum and giving up one infield hit is also remarkable. But I imagine more pitchers face the minimum than throw no-hitters, and scarcity is part of what makes it such an achievement. 198 no-hitters in 100 years is less than two per year. You can’t say that’s not worthy of attention.

9

According to the OP, the only meritorious pitching achievement would be a guy striking out all 27 hitters.

That just isn’t going to happen in the majors.

Yes, a no-hitter has luck involved. But Millwood was pitching very well in that game. Against a very good hitting team. Barry Bonds was in that lineup.

Kerry Wood probably pitched the most dominating game in major league history when he struck out 20 Astros in a game in 1998. He hit one batter with a pitch and another batter reached on an infield single that the third baseman could have easily been charged an error on.

But it was ruled a hit. So Wood had to settle for just having a 20 K game, instead of a no-hitter.

10

I am taken aback by the OP’s use of “almost” in regards to baseball. Don’t people realize how tiny a change in how the ball hits the bat can convert a foul/pop-up/to-the-wall nothing into a base-hit/homerun? Millimeters and milliseconds are involved. And to have all those tiny differences to go your way a whole game is amazing.

Forget how close it came to the wall. Think how close it came to the right spot on the bat.

11

Marley23, surely you realize that baseball and life are the same thing, don’t you? :slight_smile:

12

I just had this conversation with Mrs. Gaffer while watching Millwood’s no-no.

“Why are you watching the Giants? You don’t even like them,”
“The Phillies pitcher is throwing a no-hitter.”
“You mean no one has hit the ball yet?”
“Yes.”
“That sounds pretty boring.”
“No. It is very exciting because it is so rare and difficult to do.”
::popout by one of the Giants::
“That guy hit the ball.”
“Yes, but he didn’t get a hit.”
“But he hit it. Is it still a no-hitter?”
“Yes.”
“Baseball is strange.”
“Yes it is honey. Yes it is.”

13

As far as the fielder’s getting credit, every article on a no-hit game mentions the plays that could have been hits, but weren’t.

Ultimately, there are plenty of games where the fielders make great plays to rob players of hits (I’d guess you’d probably find one in every game played in the majors). But no-hitters don’t happen every day, even with the plays.

14

Maybe compare it to a penalty kick save. Cause nothing happens there either. Right?

15

You know, it is weird.

I kind of collect (through pure luck) strange sports occurrences. I have seen the Stanley Cup awarded (not to my team, however :smack: ), I have seen the biggest comeback in Texas high school sports history, I have seen Ed Belfour and Andy Moog get their 300th win, I have seen Nolan Ryan strike out 17. I have seen Wayne Gretsky, Magic Johnson, and countless others reach certain milestones.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, compares to have been sitting right behind the Rangers dugout for Kenny Rogers’ perfect game. That was the single most exciting sports event I have ever seen. Looking at the scoreboard and seeing ALL THOSE ZEROES after the game… just incredible.
<bitter aside>And the bimbo I was once married to has the tickets… ARRRG!</bitter aside>

16

I used the word bullshit just to get the thread some attention. Sorry.

I’m sure Millwood pitched well, but my point is that the pitcher more often than not gets too much of the credit in a no-hitter. As mentioned already, there are many things that can affect a game. And to me a walk is a single. The runner is on first base.

Now a perfect game would be something to see, even if it was 90% defense and 10% good pitching. Parrot, I envy you.

I grew up watching Koufax, Juan Marichal, and Bob Gibson. They would pitch every FOUR days and would not be relieved after 7 innings unless they were hurt or pitching badly. Now , Kevin (15 million and a private jet) Brown is tired after 6 innings.

Koufax would pitch 2 hit shutouts, walking 0 or on a wild day, 1 batter.

I’m spoiled and I live in the past.

PS Again, a walk is a single. Man on base.

17

I’d agree with you there… but I also think that Sandy Koufax’s 1965 perfect game is another example of extreme dominance.
LOS ANGELES IP H R ER BB SO
Koufax (W) 9 0 0 0 0 14

And he did this against a not too bad Cubs team that had Ron Santo, Ernie Banks and Billy Williams on it. As well, the opposing pitcher, Bob Hendley, pitched a one-hitter and only walked one guy (the winning run was unearned).

18

:rolleyes:

That’s the most absurd statement I’ve read all day. There are seriously fundamental differences and end-results between a BB and a single. What about catcher interference? What about errors?

You can bitch all you want about how pitchers nowadays aren’t what they used to be, but the fact remains that the rules have remained the same since that time. But if you do make that argument, please be advised that the argument of “hitters back then weren’t what they are now” will be countered, and this whole mess will be the biggest clusterfuck of a thread!

:slight_smile:

19

Now here is a REAL no-hitter

Anybody spot the mistake in that box score?

20

I watched that game on TV here in Houston. An amazing performance by Wood. Sadly it was his last amazing performance as he used up his arm in that one game. He was never the same. Where is he now? Double A?

Rob
Who is not bitter that the Astros let NOLAN FREAKING RYAN go. Bastards.