I like the Mets.
Not to mention that Cano led in DPs by a few, assists by many and putouts by a large margin.
Here’s a Baseball Prospectus list of top fielders, based of Fielding Runs Above Replacement:
Pitcher—Trevor Cahill, Athletics (9)
Catcher—Matt Wieters, Orioles (42)
First baseman—Mark Teixeira, Yankees (24)
Second baseman—Aaron Hill, Blue Jays (33)
Third baseman—Adrian Beltre, Red Sox (39)
Shortstop—Alexei Ramirez, White Sox (59)
Outfielders—B.J. Upton, Rays (41), Franklin Gutierrez, Mariners (39), Denard Span, Twins (34)
According to BP, Teixeira earned his GG, but Cano and Jeter did not.
The Jeter decision, of course, is not even worth taking the time to argue. It’s a really, really poor joke. Not only that, it’s a poor joke that’s been told too many times before. I don’t hate Jeter; i think he’s a fantastic player who will one day take his place in the Hall of Fame. But it’s not for his fielding that he deserves to be there. Nor do i blame him for the ridiculous number of GG votes he gets. I blame the idiots who make the decision.
As for Cano, after a whole bunch of searching on different sites, looking at a whole bunch of different metrics, i have found no evidence that he was much better than an average fielder at second base in 2010. He didn’t hurt the Yankees, and he’s not bad in any sense of the word, but he simply wasn’t the best defensive 2B in the league this year. Period.
In previewing the ALCS a few weeks ago, here’s what the BP guys had to say about the Yankee infield:
So, using the most generous metrics, Cano is slightly above average, and using FRAA he’s slightly below. Nothing to be concerned about, but also nothing that justifies winning an award for best defender at his position.
Baseball Reference’s Rtot stat (essentially, an FRAA metric calculated in slightly different fashion from the BP measure) marks Cano as exactly average for the season, with an Rtot of 0. This measure includes a bunch of more specific figures, such as double plays, so you can’t dismiss it by saying something like, “Well, he turned a lot of DPs.”
I recognize that measuring fielding ability is actually quite a difficult task, and the sabermetrics folks themselves are very conscious of this fact. But when just about every different complex metric says that a particular player was not only not the best, but was actually only about average, then it’s hard to take his GG win seriously.
Do i think this is all a big deal? No, not really, because i don’t really expect the GG to actually reflect performance. They’re about image, and the best way to ensure you win a bunch of GGs is to win your first one, because that tends to reinforce in some people’s minds the idea that you’re a great fielder. It’s also worth noting that this isn’t just a Yankee thing; Jeter and Cano weren’t the only ones to benefit from this situation this year.
I don’t see how Cano is any better than most regular second basemen in turning double plays. He doesn’t look any better to me than most guys, and inferior to a few. He certainly is not in Hill’s class (although I’m shocked at BP’s overall assessment of Hill’s defense; I have trouble believing he was worth three whole games with the glove.)
I’m not just going to stathead figures here; it’s my visual impression of him that he is a competent regular major league second baseman, but not elite.
Cano is a perfectly good major league second baseman, which means he’s a sensationally skilled ballplayer, but by MLB standards - the relevant standards, after all - he’s a middle of the pack fielder.
And no, it’s not just a Yankee thing. I love Ichiro, but come on.
National League
P Bronson Arroyo (CIN-1st)
C Yadier Molina (STL-3rd)
1B Albert Pujols (STL-2nd)
2B Brandon Phillips (CIN-2nd)
3B Scott Rolen (CIN-8th)
SS Troy Tulowitzki (COL-1st)
OF Michael Bourn (HOU-2nd)
OF Carlos Gonzalez (COL-1st)
OF Shane Victorino (PHI-3rd)
The Yankees are talking to Cliff Lee. If the Yankees sign Cliff Lee, why even play the season? If MLB administration does insist on playing the season, Cliff Lee will become the new Marion Hossa. Hossa went to the Stanley Cup final three consecutive years with three different teams, losing the first two and winning the last. Lee has been on the last two World Series losing teams (Phillies and Rangers).
I would suspect that signing Cliff Lee would make the 2011 Yankees about as good as the 2010 Yankees. The team is otherwise going to be worse, due to age; they have no promising young position players and some age issues in the rotation as well, although Phil Hughes looks very good indeed.
And as I recall, the 2010 Yankees did not make it to the World Series.
I’m also going to go out on a limb and predict that Cliff Lee’s going to be seriously overpaid. People are all hyped up about his playoff performances, but he’s not Sidd Finch, and he’s gonna be 32 next year.
Montero is not promising?
I agree on Lee. But it is nearly a forgone conclusion the Yanks will overpay him.
mhendo made my case for Cano’s defensive mediocrity relative to the 2B crop as a whole better than I did, but I’d be curious to hear you defend (no pun intended) this position. Because it doesn’t match what my eyes see, and it absolutely does not reflect the statistics.
Pedroia makes fewer errors (.990 career fielding percentage vs Cano’s .985), has vastly superior range (13.7 career RngR vs Cano’s -33.2 [!]), is better at turning double plays (3.7 career DPR vs Cano’s 1.3) and has had a superior UZR/150 for each of the past three years. Where’s your evidence that Pedroia is “not really even close” to Cano? Because they’re certainly not reflected in the numbers, traditional or sabermetric.
Edited to add: Also, Pedroia’s more than a match for Cano offensively as well (.366 career wOBA vs .356). Cano has more power, but Pedroia has superior on-base skills (arguably the more valuable one).
Probably the most in-depth analysis you’ll get from “Roy Halladay” can be found here
My God man, that’s, like, 14 in our years.
I emphatically disagree. Outside of Pettitte and Sab, the Yanks didn’t have a reliable 3rd starter (Hughes wasn’t reliable coming into the season). Now, not only do they have a reliable 3rd starter, they have a reliable 4th starter (the aforementioned Hughes). In a sport where most teams don’t have a reliable 2nd starter, that is huge. That is, I believe, enough to overcome any offensive shortcomings, which, I believe, the Yankees don’t have, or have less than any other team. A starting rotation of Sab, Pet, Lee, and Hughes won’t have to overcome much offensive ineptness. And a lineup including A-Rod, Jeter, Cano, Texiera, and Posada (remember, the Yanks led the league in runs scored) will be enough to support these pitchers.
I say look at (recent) past history. The only other team (at this point) in contention for Lee is Texas, and, given Texas’ significantly less ability to sign high-valued players, and their presumed apprehension to do so (see the reckless 2001 signing of A-Rod), the Yanks, who are always in a position to overpay a player, and the fact that, having tasted near victory the last two seasons, Lee won’t have to be overpaid that much.
It’s not what t hey went into the season with, it’s what they went out with. Here’s their starters in 2010, in order of starts made:
Sabathia 21-7, 3.18
Burnett 10-15, 5.26
Hughes 18-8, 4.19
Vazquez 10-10, 5.32
Pettite 11-3, 3.28
Adding Lee, and assuming they resign Pettite as they apparently plan to do, that means in 2011, Lee replaces Vazquez, since the team can’t dump Burnett (I said Burnett was a waste of the Yankees’ money when they signed him, by God) and won’t have the guts to not start him, so:
- Sabathia
- Lee
- Hughes
- Pettite
- Burnett
The upgrade is from Vazquez, who went 10-10, to Lee, who went 12-9… okay, Lee is better than 12-9, but he’s not going to go 20-0, either. And Pettite is a million years old.
It’s an old team. Pettite will probably not pitch that well. Jeter is old. Posada is old, and their insistence on resigning him baffles me. A-Rod is 34 and his numbers lurched downward this year, and even the guys in their prime are not on the promising side of 27, except Gardner, who’s a good player but I think his ceiling is hit. I can see a lot of players here who might play worse or get hurt, but who do you think’s going to play better?
Obviously the Yankees are a good team, they won 96 games. But with a starting point of 96 games it doesn’t take a lot of age-related declines to start dropping wins. As you point out they have many fine players… well, yes, that’s why they won 96 games. Why would be expect the same cast of characters to play BETTER, though, in 2011? There’s no reason to believe they will and a number of reasons to believe they will play worse. Lee will, IMHO, make up for much of the decline I expect to see in the existing roster, but the guy can’t pitch every game and, with due respect to him, he’s not Steve Carlton.
I like Montero very much, but he’s 21 and has never played a game in the major leagues, so I wouldn’t bet a lot that he will play better in 2011 than a combination of Cervelli and Posada played in 2010.
In the future, Montero may significantly improve the Yankees, but 2011 is probably a bit early to expect big returns.
Fair enough on Montero. Though he won’t hurt them defensively at least. Posada has slipped that much.
Posada might see a small offensive bump as DH which will help as Montero learns to hit Major League pitchers. The kid can hit but does take time to adjust to each level.
As to Gardner he still has a bit more upside. Especially if he really works on his bunting as I believe the plan is. I suspect he could still add another 20 points to his BA & OBA and that will help.
I think Jeter will be no worse in 2011 than 2010 and might bounce back a bit. But I agree his .315 days are probably gone. Teix & Granderson should be better and Cano and Swish should be about the same. So overall I don’t see a large loss of offense.
By all reports it appears that in 2012 the plan is Jeter to 3rd, A-Rod to DH, Montero as full time Catcher and now experienced. Teix, Cano, Granderson and Gardner in their prime. SS is planned for Nunez but we’ll see how that works out and he’ll never hit like Jeter did. Not sure about RF, could still be Swisher or could be someone else.
Probably, because Posada isn’t a free agent. He has one more year on this contract. I assume they will let him go after that. I do find it ironic though that they are planning to move him off catcher to let someone who will probably be even worse defensively catch.
Well that is because you think all the people who had really good years will stay the same, and all the people who had bad years will get better. Cano had a career year, he probably isn’t going to match it. I’m also inclined to think Gardner is more likely to take a step back than another immediate one forward.
Surely Montero can’t be THAT bad. Cervelli certainly isn’t shabby.
Montero is already showing better skills than Posada. As to Cervelli, I don’t know what happened to him last year. He made his rise through the minors with his glove and it all went to hell last year.
He absolutely can. I have yet to see anyone outside of the Yankees organization that thinks he is a viable catcher. He is big and doesn’t move around well. Remember Carlos Delgado came up as a catcher at one point. Not everyone is capable of playing even passable defense as a catcher. Cervelli can’t really hit and his fielding regressed last year, so I don’t see him as much of an asset. The Yankees do have some legitimate catchers in their system, but they are a couple years away.