America’s pastime really English? Earliest reference discovered
Apparently as an American and a Baseball fan, I should be infuriated and offended by this. I’m not though, given rounders and cricket, its hardly surprising that our version of the bat and ball game originated in the motherland. It is sort of an interesting story though.
My local post-game guy is talking about this tonight. He just said “I don’t believe in that Abner Doubleday crap, either…I think baseball was really invented by God.”
I liked that one 
See, Abner Doubleday found these golden plates, and then he had this hat…
This is supposed to be shocking?
Look, NOBODY has believed the Abner Doubleday legend in ages. Every American who knows even a LITTLE about the subject is aware that baseball evolved from the older English games of Rounders and Townball.
If this diary is genuine, I’m a LITTLE surprised that the actual term “base ball” was being used in England as early as 1755. But nobody, absolutely NOBODY should be surprised that Englishmen were playing games very much LIKE baseball long before Abner Doubleday was born.
It’s well known that rounders was referred to occasionally as “baseball.” All this diary proves is that the term “baseball” was used earlier than previously known for the game. This changes nothing. Baseball was based on the English games rounders and cricket. Sometimes rounders was referred to in the U.K. as “baseball” in the late eighteenth century and early nineteenth century, which is about the time (and possibly somewhat earlier than the time) that baseball was evolving to its current form in the U.S.
That’s our thing, we invent sports we are rubbish at playing. See also football, rugby, cricket…
To be fair, we’re actually quite good at rounders / baseball.
It’s just that most competitors are 13 y/old schoolgirls (which is the correct demographic for baseball / rounders).
And we’re on the rise with our tennis player.
Funny, here in the U.S., soccer is widely seen as a sport for rich, white little girls from the suburbs (unlike a truly manly sport, like American football).
Go figure.
This diary is the third-known reference to “Base Ball” thus far found, not the earliest.
There is a 1744 children’s book, written by John Newberry, showing kids playing the game of “base-ball.”
There is a 1748 letter, written by Lady Hervey, describing “base-ball.”
No baseball historian seriously believes Abner Doubleday had anything to do with the game. Even the Hall of Fame treats it just as a story.
Alexander Cartwright has a better claim as the father of American baseball. He codified the rules into something resembling what they are today. In a sense, he invented it – the other games had varying rules and many only had the name in common. Indeed, the diary quote mentioned in the OP could mean a game that, other than having bases, does not resemble baseball as we know it at all.
The Doubleday myth was chosen by MLB for political reasons. There was a lot of anti-British sentiment in the US at that time (1907), and MLB wanted an origin that separated the sport from the UK. When Abner Graves came forth with the Doubleday story, they jumped on it without asking questions. The only Doubleday to have any connection to baseball is Nelson Doubleday, who owned the Mets in the 1980s
You mean sort of like, ‘kicking a pigs head around a field’ and ‘American Football’? Us ‘proper football’ fans still see picking the pigs head up, as a foul.
"Objectivity results from the use of the scientific method without philosophic or fan-based assumptions in seeking answers to the question: Where did baseball come from?
“We believe objectivity in the institutions of sports, historical research and the media will lead not only to good baseball origins science, but also to constitutional neutrality in this subjective, historical science that unavoidably impacts fan loyalties. We promote the scientific evidence of intelligent baseball design because proper consideration of that evidence is necessary to achieve not only scientific objectivity but also constitutional neutrality.”
"Evolutionary Rounderists need to understand we are taking baseball back…[t]his is a battle cry to recognize the science in the revealed truth of Doubleday.
“Polls taken last year showed that 45 percent of Americans believe that Doubleday created baseball in its present form 169 years ago and that baseball shares no common ancestor with Rounders or Cricket. Only 26 percent believe in the central tenet of baseball evolution, that all life descended from an old English pastime.”
Or Rugby-For-Girls, to give it its correct English name. Originally popularised at Rodean Public School for Girls in the late 19th century when the need for healthy sporting activity led the teachers to consider rugby, recently invented at Rugby Boys School.
But in the 19th century girls were considered naturally delicate and wanting in stamina, hence the introduction of padding and a 25:1 standing around to playing ratio and the constant swapping of entire teams lest someone breaks into an unladylike sweat.
Because somebody’s not going to get the joke, all of Shot Clock’s post is a parody. There are no baseball creationists and baseball evolutionists. The quotation he gives is made up. If somebody doesn’t point that out, somebody reading this will believe it and it will eventually start passing around the Internet as a fact.
No offense Tagos, but the only reason rugby came about was because some toff cheated while playing football, and because he was ‘head lad’ no-one dared to tell him to stop it. Eventually, the oval shaped ball was introduced, to add some more jolly japes to the game.
typo…again… I get too excited.
William Webb Ellis was a nobody, as I understand it, but if you go back far enough, football had its origins over a playing area of indeterminate size, with rudimentary rules covering how to move the ball to the other end of the field, what to do with people who got in your way, and how to get the ball off them when they had it. A bit like Millwall but for less money.
Bath Football Club is the name of the club where they play Rugby in that fair city (and it is quite a fair one) - the existence of the club predates the separate codes.
Hmmm…31 minutes…knowing teh internets, that ship probably sailed about 29 minutes ago.
Baseball evolved from earlier ball sports. Abner Doubleday was a Civil War Gen . and had nothing to do with baseball at all. Al Spaulding the early equipment manufacturer came up with the idea of making a war hero the starter to get attention.
Cartwright is a much better choice . He codified the rules and shape of the field. He helped the evolution of baseball.
Sorry, I’ve already spammed all my cow orkers and extended family. :o