In another thread, we’re discussing a mistake in a baseball video game where it scored a run when the third out occurred at 1st base, which is clearly not in accordance with MLB rule 4.09(a):
One run shall be scored each time a runner legally advances to and touches first, second, third and home base before three men are put out to end the inning. EXCEPTION: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a play in which the third out is made (1) by the batter-runner before he touches first base; (2) by any runner being forced out; or (3) by a preceding runner who is declared out because he failed to touch one of the bases.
My question is, what if the 3rd out is a tag on a runner, not a force, but could have been a force? Here’s the scenario I see - 2 outs, runners on 1st and 3rd. Batter hits a dribbler to the 2nd baseman, who has to come in to get it. The runner from first to second is right in front of the 2nd baseman as he scoops up the ball, so he just tags the runner for the 3rd out. The runner from 3rd was a speed demon though, and crossed the plate first. Does his run count? If he had thrown to 2nd or 1st for a force out, it wouldn’t, but it seems that this case isn’t covered.
The way I read the rule, and the way I’ve always seen it ruled, is that the run counts unless the runner is actually forced out (by stepping on the second base bag or throwing to first).
Run still doesn’t count-you see this quite often on throws on the home plate side of first, forcing the first baseman to come off the bag, but he swipe-tags the runner as he runs by (the only time you should slide going into first, BTW). Since the batter-runner never gained possession of first base, until he does you can get him out any old way and nobody else can score.
But John de Fool your situation is specifically covered by the rules - “the third out is made (1) by the batter-runner before he touches first base;” - for the batter-runner it doesn’t matter you you make the out. For regular base runners, it does matter - if the runner started the play on second and decided to run for third and you tag him for the third out, a run would count, since it wasn’t a force play. My question was whether tagging a player who you could have forced out would result in the run not counting. Munch’s link seems to indicate it wouldn’t -whether an out is a forced out depends on the circumstances, not the actual method of making the out.
Now I’m going to have to come back and admit that I now think I was wrong in my first answer.
According to a few umpiring sites I’ve seen (one here) a “force out” can occur even if the runner is tagged instead of the base. In that case the out made on the runner going from 1st to 2nd is a force out and the run does not count per exception (2). If the runner was going from 2nd to 3rd with first base unoccupied then it is no longer a force out and the run scores (even though the out mechanic is identical).
