I have a question about baseball statistics as regards the “fielder’s choice”:
If you’re up to bat, and there’s a runner ahead of you, and you ground into a possible twin killing (but the lead runner is put out and you are not), why do the statistics act like you were out on that play, even though you made it safely? In other words, say you were 0 for 2 on that at-bat prior to grounding into what would have been a twin killing had you not made it safely. Despite your making it safely, you drop to 0 for 3. The impression I get is that in order to be credited with a hit, both you and the lead runner have to be safe.
If he’s out and you’re not, you don’t get a hit. If you’re out and he’s not, you don’t get a hit. If both of you are out, you don’t get a hit.
That’s what I don’t understand about the “fielder’s choice”-- why the statistics can and do treat you like you were out when you made it safely (therein making it a statistical twin killing, if not a real one).
Because it wouldn’t make sense to give credit for a hit on a ball that resulted in a more advanced runner being forced out. That is actually worse than if the batter himself was the one put out.
It’s somewhat analogous to an error, in that the batter is credited for an at-bat but not a hit because his ability to reach base was determined by the actions of the fielder, not of himself.
An interesting aspect of the fielder’s choice is this:
Say there’s a pitching change after the first batter reached first. The second batter reaches on a fielder’s choice. If he scores later, his run is charged to the first pitcher, not the second pitcher who actually pitched to him.
Because the second batter could have been thrown out, the second pitcher isn’t penalized for the lead runner being thrown out instead.
Another interesting aspect of the fielder’s choice, and one of which many fans are not aware, is that the choice need not be successful, and the play need not result in an out. You reach base on a fielder’s choice when you reach base because a play was made on a base runner, regardless of whether the play was successful.
So if there is a runner on third, and you hit a ground ball, and the defense throws late to the plate, but the scorer deems that the defense could have thrown you out at first, you are safe on a fielder’s choice. Your batted ball has the effect of a hit, but you are charged with an out in your batting average.
This is the similar situation in a sacrifice attempt. With a runner on first, you attempt to sacrice yourself to move the runner to second. If the play is made at second, and the runner is safe, it is a fielder’s choice and you get credit for a sacrifice, not a hit. A sacrifice does not count as a time at bat.
Not necessarily. If, in the scorer’s judgement, an attempt to throw you out at first would have failed, you’ll be credited with a hit. One of the more convoluted rules:
Well, yes, but how often would the defense have failed to throw out the batter when it attempts to throw out a runner? If it has a play on a runner, it had a sure out on the batter.
Not necessarily. If, for example, there was a runner on second headed for third on the bunt and the ball was bunted down the third base line, it is possible if the pitcher fields the ball that his only play is on the runner heading from second to third and that he has no shot at the batter-runner behind him. It would be a relatively rare instance, however.
It would especially be rare in that event because there is no force out at third. More realistically, it could happen if there were runners on first and second when there is a force out at third. I’ve seen the pitcher attempt the force out at third in that situation when the runner is safe, and the batter has never been given a hit, for the reason that he would’ve been out. The runner knows that the batter is going to bunt, so he’s taking a big lead off, and begins running right away. If he’s a slow runner or if the ball is bunted too hard, the pitcher can get him at third. Remember, the shortstop must cover third in that situation, as the third baseman is moving in to field the bunt. Another more likely scenario is when the bases are loaded, and the attempt is made to get the runner at home. I’ve seen that happen, and again, I don’t remember the batter getting credited for a hit. But, however unlikely, it is possible.
I would say that, in general, this circumstance would be extremely rare at the Major League level, simply due to the arm strength of the players, but far more common as you move farther down the levels. At the high school level, where I coach, you could reasonably see this kind of scenario several times a year for a single team, whereas I doubt you’d see it crop up more than a couple times a year in all The Show combined.