I may never fully understand all the rules of baseball. It is just overwhelming and too technical at times. But, here goes: Am I to understand that whenever there is a base runner AND an infield out is made, it’s a fielder’s choice? Is that correct? And, does this mean a fielder is NEVER obligated to go for the force-out? In short, all such plays in the infield with a runner on IS a fielder’s choice?
A fielders choice occurs when a player reaches base as a result of hitting a ball that produces an out at another base. It’s a way of explaining how the player made it to base safely: they didn’t hit safely, they didn’t walk, they didn’t reach on an error, they weren’t hit by a ball, etc.
So, in order to have a fielders choice, the batter must reach base safely. And, another player is out at another base. So it’s not a fielders choice if the batter is out, even if that advances another runner to a different base
If I ground out to a second baseman, but that advances a runner from 2nd to 3rd that is not a fielders choice since I the batter ended up getting out. It would only be a fielders choice if the player fielding the ground ball got the runner out, allowing me to safely reach first .
Thanks! That helps clarify! I think I just took this all for granted until one day (today) I woke up and started thinking about this more deeply. Maybe overthinking it in the process!
From the MLB rulebook:
FIELDER’S CHOICE is the act of a fielder who handles a fair grounder and, instead of throwing to first base to put out the batter-runner, throws to another base in an attempt to put out a preceding runner.
A fielder’s choice is a ruling made by the official scorer, and it only occurs when the above happens. It doesn’t matter if a preceding runner is put out, as long as the batter reaches base on a play when the play could have been made to first base in an attempt to retire the batter.
Not correct (and my bolding). For instance, in your example, there’s a runner on second. The batter hits a ground ball to the second baseman. He could make the easy throw to first, but instead throws to third to try to retire the runner, but his throw is late and the runner is safe. That’s a fielder’s choice, but no out was recorded.
Thanks for the correction.
The FC is to show on your scorecard that he reached base but made an out. For example, runner on first was out at second when the batter hit the ball, say a soft grounder short to second which the defense could not turn into a double-play. You cannot give the hitter a hit since he produced an out. Neither should you credit a hit if he beat out a double-play as again, he made an out, regardless if it was himself or a teammate that was put out. You’re basically right that he made an out (in this case a teammate already on base), you just have to have a term that he wasn’t the one put out at first but need to show that he ended up on base anyway. Fielder’s Choice is the term since the fielder “had a choice” to throw to first OR take the “short route” to still get an out.
This is incorrect. As has been pointed out already, an out doesn’t need to be recorded. If the fielder chooses to attempt an out at a different base instead of at first, it’s a Fielder’s Choice, regardless of whether or not his is successful. (I.e. if the play is broken up and the runner is safe, it’s still scored an FC.)
Basically, the fielder could have gotten the batter out but chose to make a different play for strategic reasons.
I’d be interested to see how the following would be scored:
Man on 1st and 2nd (who is very slow). Left fielder is playing shallow. Grounder through the left side, LF fields the ball and throws to 3rd for the force out. The batter-runner is fast, and there wouldn’t have been a chance at getting him out.
Is it ruled a single, or an FC? There’s no choice here - it was the only option (other than maybe a force at 2nd as well).
Neither. It’s a putout, scored 7-5.
It’s essentially the same play as if the ground ball was to deep short. Shortstop has no chance to throw the batter out at first, but throws to third to force out the slow runner from second.
Yeah, I think it would be the same scoring as with a deep grounder fielded by the shortstop, which has already been said, but I can’t delete my post, so here we are
I always assumed those were FCs as well - but that seems obvious. Thanks! (I also had no idea a botched FC was still ruled an FC before this thread.)
The reason for the Fielders Choice is so that the batter doesn’t get credit for a hit by reaching first due to the fielder choosing to make a different play. It’s just for scoring, it assumes a ground ball would result in any batter being put out at first unless there was a fielding error.
Correct.
For purposes of calculating batting, slugging average, total bases, on-base percentage, and other offensive stats, reaching on a FC is the same as actually making an out. The same is true for reaching on an error.
However, if you reach on a FC or error, and later come around to score, you are credited with a run scored.
In both of those situations, the batter would be safe at first on a fielder’s choice. When a preceding runner is out, the batter is safe on a FC regardless of whether the defense had any realistic chance to retire him. When the preceding runner is safe, only then does the likely outcome of a hypothetical play at first come into play. If the defense likely had no play at first, then the batter gets a hit; if he likely would have been out, then a FC.
IIRC, defensive indifference is also considered a fielder’s choice. With defensive indifference, the ball is never put into play by the batter. It is similar to a stolen base, except that the defense has no interest in preventing the runner from advancing a base (as you occasionally see happen late in a blowout game).
Rethinking this, I believe you are right, and I stand corrected. It’s still a 7-5 (or 6-5) putout, but also a fielder’s choice.
Before seeing what others say, I score this a base hit. The fact that there was an out doesn’t negate the fact he got a hit. The LF just threw to third and as the runner was slow, happened to get an out. You could say the same thing of a hit to an outfielder (typically left or right) who throws out a runner at the plate.
As long as the out doesn’t affect the batter, it would be a fielder’s choice. I’ve seen a “base hit” to right where the RF throws him out at first, a 9-3 out. There are videos of this type on Youtube. I guess the general rule of thumb would be if he touched the bag, it’s a hit. Whatever happens after gets scored differently. So if he somehow gets out at first, say he strays too far from the base after his hit, it would be scored a hit and an out on the basepaths.
Thanks. I even saw this recently, an attempt at a DP but no outs were made, it was scored a FC so he gets an AB and appears to have made an out in the boxscore. Which seems counter-intuitive and weird but that’s how it’s done. Just like an error, the batter reached but he stills gets an 0-for-1.
I’m changing my answer, I spoke too fast. It would be score a FC75.