"Batman V Superman: The Dawn of Justice"

The animus is rooted in John Byrne’s new take on Superman in the 80’s and Frank Miller’s The Dark Knight. Superman was TOO Super and Byrne wanted to focus more on the ‘man’ part. More or less, it’s never made sense they would be the buddies they were Pre-Crisis. From Bruce’s point of view, Superman is a boy scout who says yes to any badge waved in his face. Also, Bruce probably thinks Superman could be doing a hell of a lot more to help the world.

Superman thinks Batman is a paranoid, untrusting, egotistical vigilante who never tires of letting everyone know how smart he is. And Superman is more or less right.

They are friends of a sort and do have enormous respect for one another.

They’re still presented as friends. Just friends who disagree a lot.

A bunch of reactions to this on Twitter:

I just hope they finally put Bat-Mite in it.

Worst ice cream flavors ever.

[CRANKY OLD DUDE]
Batman v Superman? Huh, this whole gay marriage thing has gone way too far…
[/CRANKY OLD DUDE]

That’s why there’s no Robin.

Bat-Mite v Mr Mxyzptlk!

Aw, I think we’re rapidly approaching the Death Rattle.

[QUOTE=Son of a Rich]
If Superman couldn’t handily defeat Batman outright, surely he could just reveal his secret identity as Bruce Wayne.
[/QUOTE]

Sure as Bruce can break the news about Clark Kent. But let me add mention of what strikes me as the definitive post-crisis Superman-and-Batman interaction: when the big guy handed Bruce the one piece of kryptonite on the planet – freshly liberated from Lex Luthor – explaining that while they’re not friends, he’d like to think they’re working for a similar cause, and if he ever falls under someone else’s control, he wants the means to stop him in the hands of someone he trusts.

I think it’s time we freeze the bat-jokes.

Time to end the charade.

The rumors I heard was that they wanted to call the film “Man of Steel 2: Dawn of Justice” but they pretty much had to go with Batman v Superman because that’s the name that all the hype has been around for so long. They had also been looking at other subtitles like “Knight Falls” etc. that would imply Batman, but they pretty much have to make sure Batman get prominent billing.

First, they have to make it clear that Batman is the antagonist here, WB and Snyder have said repeatedly that Batman and Superman will be fighting here, and still a lot of people seem to think that they’ll team up. I imagine they probably will team up, either against a larger villain revealed after they fight, or perhaps at the end as a lead in to the Justice League film, but they definitely WILL be fighting. We’re going to see them team up, let’s see them fight first.

And second, while the comic nerds and some of the fans more into the DC universe might get a clever name, the casual movie audience may not get a less obvious reference like “Knight Falls”. And sure, I’d love to have seen the film calmed “World’s Finest”, and it would give all the comic nerds stiffies, but that means absolutely nothing to the general movie-going audience, and also goes against the first issue of implying that they’re teaming up rather than fighting. So they pretty much have to have both Superman and Batman featured prominently in the title and since it’s been called Batman vs Superman, and it just doesn’t sound quite as good the other way around, I understand why they’re calling it that. Yes, I’d definitely have prefered to see a more clear-cut MoS sequel or at least a more poetic title, but ultimately what matters is that they get the butts in the seats and the film is good, the title ultimately is just a tool for the former.

That said, I wouldn’t necessarily say that this being now BvS officially means that we might not see a more direct sequel to MoS. Perhaps they wanted it to be more of a sequel, but as they got writing and started to develop more films, they realized they needed to give both heroes more equal billing to set up the follow-up Justice League film, then they’ll do Superman and Batman solo films following. After all, WB has officially announced they’re woring on 9 DC films currently, though several of them have nothing to do with this cinematic universe, so I’d like to think there’s longer term plans in place.
And for those who question how Batman can fight Superman, I like the comparison upthread that if Lex Luthor can give him a run for his money, why can’t someone who is just as smart, just as rich, but also a bad ass super hero, not give him a run for his money too? I would strongly recommend reading or watching the recent animated version of The Dark Knight Returns to see how Batman is able to fight Superman. There’s also an animated film from a few years ago called Justice League: Doom, where Batman has plans to take out any member of the Justice League should they go rogue, and they get turned against the Justice League. I haven’t seen Justice League: War yet, so I can’t comment on that one.

Admittedly, most of his plans against Superman revolve around Kryptonite, and that hasn’t been introduced into the universe yet, and I hope they leave it out. We saw that the Kryptonians in their battle armor were able to give Superman a run for his money in Man of Steel, so I see no reason why LexCorp and/or Wayne Enterprises can’t get their hands on the technology and Batman is able to build a battle suit out of it. Zod, while a general, was always at a disadvantage against Superman in Man of Steel, because he was caught off guard in their first encounter, and in the last, he wasn’t entering the fight prepared, he was in a straight up rage and fought recklessly with powers that, while he had gained some control over, obviously he didn’t have full control over (point taken from when he seems to accidentally use his heat vision in the building while still wearing his battle armor).

So Batman, an experienced hero with more than a decade of crime fighting under his belt and experience fighting villains that are more powerful than he is, could very well gain an upperhand by having a similar battlesuit, studying Superman extensively before engaging, entering the situation with a plan, and most of all being calm and calculating as he fights rather than enraged. As such, I think Batman will serve as an even more dangerous foe to Superman than Zod did.

TLDR: I’m a little disappointed in the title, but it makes sense based on where they’re going. There’s a ton of rich material to pull from where Batman and Superman can have a compelling fight despite Batman not having any super powers.

Steve MB:

It’s been done

Were we supposed to take away that it was the suits that gave them strength? I figured all they did was help filter out the extra noise/etc that Superman had to learn to tune out, and maybe provide a little bit of armor - but in the end, it was still the fact that they were Kryptonian that carried the day.

Going the “super-powered suit” might make sense, but 1) it runs the risk of making Batman too much into an Iron Man ripoff, and 2) we’ve already seen pictures of the new Batsuit, and it’s very old-school, doesn’t look like the sort of thing that should be any sort of powered armor.

If they are going to do a DKR-style beatdown with Batman in power armor, the armored suit would almost certainly be a third-act reveal, and not the get-up he’ll be running around in for the first two thirds of the movie.

Yes, the suits gave them the strength. They were using breathers in the suits and it was shown that, while on the ship in the Kyptonian atmospherics, Superman lost his power. I think that was part of why they didn’t really see the point of sharing the planet because they essentially already had the same super powers without having to suffer from adapting to Earth’s atmosphere.

As Miller said, I don’t think he’ll be in the suit full-time, I think if they use the battle armor, he probably won’t wear it until the big final fight in the last act.

I also don’t think there’s much concern about Batman being seen as an Iron Man rip-off, because Batman is an already well-known property and the suits as seen in Man of Steel are not in any way mistakeable for the Iron Man suits. Was anyone watching Man of Steel thinking that the battle suits that the Kryptonians were wearing were like an evil Iron Man or an Iron Monger or Whiplash rip-off? I really can’t imagine very many people made that connection. I think as long as they don’t have it shooting missles, showing a HUD with the suit talking to him, and having stuff like the repulsors, not very many people will think that.

I still think the definitive treatment of the ‘Superman vs. Batman’ motif is this one.

Can someone give a quick rundown of all the times Batman has actually beaten Superman? Is it always just “ah ha, surprise Kryptonite!”

The one everybody’s dancing around here didn’t really happen in-continuity – it’s set maybe Ten Years From Now, for a floating value of ‘Now’ – and has Bruce (a) knowing that Clark will x-ray the area for kryptonite, and (b) showing up clad in power armor that’s plugged into the city’s power grid and bristling with nifty weapons.

It’s enough to make the fight interesting – even irritating – for Superman, who takes longer than he should to rip the armor apart while trying to reason with the guy. And that’s when Green Arrow fires, well, a green arrow at the big guy, and cue the synthetic kryptonite coming into play.

Batman then starts overpowering Superman, at which point things get weird.

I’m sure there’s an, “Aha, I tricked you into fighting me on a planet with a red sun!” in there somewhere.