Here’s a question for Spidey fans:
I’ve watched the cartoons and read some of the comics. Many times, Spiderman is on top of the tallest building around, yet he swings off of it. How does Spidey get his web to stick to the air? That’d be a neat trick.
As for the Batman/Superman debate, I think Batman is better. His abilities are understandable. Superman get’s his powers just because he’s under a different color of sun? Get real, even the X-Men have a better explanation!
Hey, the cops of Gotham, with the exception of Gordon, aren’t real crazy about Batsy either, but I can’t picture him driving the Batmobile home to stately Wayne Manor and crying about it! If Spidey has to stay in NY, so be it. He should learn to command some respect. Bruce doesn’t care if the cops hate him. He does what he’s going to do and that’s that. Strong, serious, and silent is what gets the job done!
No WHINERS!
A girl
I beleive you all hav eit backwards. Superman is far more tragic than Batman. Supe can never settle down, have a family…there is no ‘real boy’ ending for this Pinnochio. Supe is way brighter than he lets on too, and this leads to his unhappines and isoplation - why do you think he had the Fortress of Solitude? He is a truly sad figure…he has already peeked, there is nowhere for him but down.
Batman OTOH, is a ‘real man’ and the ‘right’ woman could heal his wounded soul… for him its the search for inner peace that drives him to be batman, when he finds this peace, even if it should be through death, he will no longer need ‘batman’.
As for his genius etc… its all relative. He is rich, therefore he can afford the ‘toys’ and research and the easy coverof Bruce Wayne. If he had been poor like Spiderman, he could NOT have become Batman. He would have still had the crime fighter drive… but with no real ‘powers’ he would have been useless. Sooooo, his money/the death of his parents is what allows him to be Batman. But if his parents hadnt died, he would never have been Batman anyway.
Batman’s story is far more satisfying than superman’s exploding planet stuff. And Batmans attraction to Catwoman - yowza!! Now that is a great story line.
I really enjoy the Batman Beyond series, it gives us a real brutal look at the man Bruce Wayne becomes, as opposed to the man he could have been had he found the inner peace he needed.
Sesquipedalophobia --fear of long words
He’d HAVE to, wouldn’t he? He’d shoot a web over at the Chrysler Building, say, from the Empire State Building, then jump off and smoothly swing down in a graceful arc. What’s he gonna do if he shoots UP at a building?
Reminds me of the old MAD Magazine lampoon, “Batboy and Rubin.” They swing in on the Batrope, then gradually loose momentum until they’re just hanging onto a immobile rope.
Uke
Cactus Jack, I think I get what you mean about “being” Batman now. He’s the character that makes us say, “yeah, if I had that kind of money (and ability) that’s what I would do, too.” You can’t do that with Big Blue.
The DC 1,000,000 story, BTW, has Superman alive in the 853rd Century, finally finding a lasting love. If I were writing comics, I would explore Superman’s loneliness more–he really is the next closest thing to a god, but lives among mortals (Christ imagery abounds throughout). How is he happy?
A great variation on supes is The Samaritan character in Kurt Busiek and Alex Ross’s “Astro City.”
I love comics and superheroes far too much for my own good…
Bucky
danielnsmith wrote:
In the old Ralph Bakshe Spiderman cartoons, he shoots his weblines to anchor points that are clearly far above the top of the New York City skyline, and still manages to swing from them.
I figure these cartoons are all taking place during the movie Independence Day, and Spiderman’s webs are actually sticking to the underside of the giant flying saucer hovering over Manhattan.
Ukulele Ike says:
"Spidey NEEDS to be in New York, so he can swing from skyscraper to skyscraper. What would he do in L.A.? Run through the streets?
There was a fairly humorous Spidey comic about 10-12 years ago were he had to go after some crook in the suburbs. The cover blurb said something to the effect of “Now Cometh . . . The Commuter” and had Spidey riding on the roof of a bus. The plot was him having to figure out how to get around outside the city. That’s about all I remember.
Kelli, you make some great points. (I’m glad you are back). I think Bruce Wayne settling down, either by choice or due to age, has been a subtext of the comics, and more explicitly in Batman Beyond, for a while now. After the second Robin, Tim Drake I believe, was killed by the Joker, Bats stayed away from sidekicks for a while. Now he realizes that he will not live forever, but Gotham needs Batman, in one form or another. He now sees himself as patriarch of the Bat family, so much so that when a new Batgirl appeared recently he made it a point that she would only be allowed to operate in Gotham with his approval, and by his rules.
Now he has Robin, Nightwing (the 1st Robin all grown up), Batgirl, and a few others on his side who can carry on if something happens to him or if he should retire, for whatever reason.
I would say that on a day-to-day basis, Superman has more happiness and a better life than Batman. Clark is now married to Lois, and for whatever reason Superman has always tried to have a normal, human side to his life. Bruce Wayne has no normal life. In fact, he only exists as a mask worn by Batman.
As for the newspapers painted Spiderman in such a bad light, a PR person could go far in helping to project the right kind of image!
Bitch by Birth
IMHO, regardless of whether or not I’m entitled to it…
I’d have to say Supe’s is the better “superhero” while Batman is the better “vigilante”. There’s gotta be a big distinction drawn there: Clark/Supes chooses to operate within the law, and to uphold it. Batman, OTOH, does what he has to do to prevent crime, using any means at his disposal, inside and outside the law if necessary. So, while I hate saying it, its apples in oranges in at least one way.
For the record, the villans have drawn me more than the heros… Lex, cool and hairless as he is, is no match for the Joker. Now there’s a bad guy.
Incidentally, I thought Jack Nicolson did an awesome job as the Joker.
Regards,
jai pey
In “Angus” the grandfather says Superman isn’t brave. If you can’t be hurt you never have anything to fear. Since I think being brave is the foundation of being a hero, I have to go with Batman. Besides, he look’s like a modern-day Zorro and must get as many chicks.
Pro-Superman people: Don’t give me any crap about how Kryptonite makes him vulnerable. You can’t compare a rare earth metal as a weakness with a mortal than can be killed with a properly thrown spoon.
Occam–Superman can be hurt and suffer and die when he has no powers. If he risks himself then, I submit that he is being brave. An earlier post (by me) lists just a few times within recent years he has both lost his powers (even dying once, for Pete’s sake) and yet risking himself to do good. If interested, check it out.
One could even argue that since Batman sometimes shows a death wish that he isn’t brave–one who hopes to die is unlikely to be afraid of it.
Superman has grown as an interesting character in my eyes precisely because he can be destroyed. Also check “Kingdom Come” for a brave action towards the end–I can’t specify without spoiling it, but could tell folks via e-mail.
Bucky wrote:
Hercules imagery also abounds in the Superman comics. (Not the least because both characters are superhumanly strong.)
But then again, Christ imagery abounds in the Hercules story and vice-versa; i.e. both had a god for a father and a mortal woman for a mother, both suffered through trials, both have had several low-budget movies made about them, etc…
FWIW, I always liked Bats. I agree with, I think it was Stephen King, who said the strength of the Batman character was the fact that he had no superpowers. Superman could blow Metropolis back into position after Lex Luthor had floated the city away, but Batman had to stop the crime before it happened.
[slight hijack]
My favorite hero has always been Firestorm, tho. ( the original, when he was half a kid and half a scientist.) I loved the duality of the character. He was a kid, who did something stupid to impress a girl,( attempt to sabotage a nuclear power plant) and it resulted in his being fused with the scientist who had also done something stupid( started the reactor to prove his theory ) into a different being: Firestorm. He hadn’t planned on being a hero, but he did his best to live up to his powers, while dealing with the awkward issues we all deal with as a teenager. His powers were awsome, too. He could rearange the molecules of anything into anything else.( except organic materials.) That ment if Superman was hunting him, He could turn the air into Kryptonite, and Bingo! Supes would be down.
[/slight hijack]
Cecil said it. I believe it. That settles it.
The story od Superman is the story of the American Immigrant.
He comes from far away (very far away)
with nothing. No name or family or home, except his new one.
He come to the heartland of America, the Midwest. He is adopted into a family of farmers; people of the soil who love him as if he were their own , & raise him in their values.
He discovers that he has something unique to give to others. He gives this gift, unselfisly & unstintingly; asking nothing in return, other than the chance to help others in need.
He can never go home again-- but , although he remembers his “old country”–Krypton–he is home.
He wears his costume, not merely to conceal his identity, but to become a symbol of hope to those in need. His Clark Kent glasses could be viewed as a mask, worn for the sake of modesty as much as disguise-- he is humbly living a simple life as Clark Kent. He does not wear his costume to be famous–he is , at heart, a simple man (simple doesn’t mean stupid) whose goal is to live in the service of others.As a reporter, he is dedicated to Truth. As Superman, he is dedicated to Justice. As a man is is definitively what Americans wish they were (well, most of us).
On our good days, we occasionaly come close. (I don’t ignore or deny the days when we don’t even try–but they are outside the scope of this thread.)
Yes , Superman is a hero. And a very ordinary man. Perhaps he is the realization & the symbol that ordinary men can do extraordinary things, if they try.
You should tell the truth, expose the lies and live in the moment."-Bill Hicks
“You should tell the lies, live the truth and expose yourself.” - Bill Clinton
Borsda. I like what you’ve said about Supes a great deal. Nicely put. But this part about “He comes from far away with nothing”? I can’t buy that. He’s got superpowers, doesn’t he? Or are we talking on the purely metaphorical level, here? Or does the fact that he doesn’t manifest those powers until he reaches America (I guess on Krypton, with its red sun, he’d have been a normal human) play into what you’re saying?
On the other hand, I don’t see how superbreath functions on the metaphorical level. It seems a real stretch to try to draw a literate correlation between x-ray vision and the immigrant’s dream of America. It’s just not very poetic.
Strength and the ability to fly? I can see that. Guy reaches America, grows strong, learns to spread his wings and fly.
Nice. Poetic.
The ability to see through lady’s clothing? Well, not so much.
Perfect people piss me off.
The ancient Greeks thought so too, which is why all their best heroes are tragically flawed.
If you are born perfect you are not “great,” your just fulfilling your potential. To be great you need to overachieve (impossible for a perfect being like Superman.)
In sports, and in life, the very best of mankind takes their weaknesses and turns them into strengths. That’s what greatness is about.
Who am I? He who dares drink, who knows that to drink is to die, yet dares drink on am I!
Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor wrote:
And if they can bench-press an apartment building. And shrug off bullets fired at them by their detractors.
Let’s be frank: which “secret identity” would you rather have-millionaire playboy or nerdy newspaper reporter? I put my vote on living in Wayne Manor myself. Add to that your potential love interest. I’d rather have Batman’s chances: Kim Bassinger, Michele Phifer, and Nicole Kidman over Lois Lane (whatever the actress was in Superman I, II, and III).
Sure, I could dress in black and act all moody and mysterious and everybody would think I’m cool. But just because I wear bright clothing and try to be a good role model for kids, people think I’m a dork.
Hey, if you think I have it easy just because of a few superpowers, you try stopping a living super-computer or keeping the sun from going nova or even stopping a rapist without giving in to the temptation to crush his skull into powder.
Jeez, I’ve got to get a new PR guy … (grumble, mutter, grumble)
Up, up and away!
Bucky:
I second your recommendation about reading “Kingdom Come”. Ross and Waid really came up with a brilliant story which compares and contrasts Batman and Superman.
Another source I would recommend which sheds light on the superhero mythos is Alan Moore’s “Watchmen”. The Rorschach character echoes Batman in a way, although his methods are far more extreme. Check it out–it’s one of the most deeply layered comic storylines I’ve ever seen.
As for me, I don’t think I could ever choose between Superman and Batman. Both are compelling, but I think Batman’s enemies are more interesting.
“It’s only common sense,
There are no accidents 'round here.”