You mean “All Along the Watchtower”, right?
I’d bet more on a “V” or “Stargate” ending, with the hybrid kids leading the way for all of fleshdom into a higher plane of existence. But I do hope Moore is more creative than that.
He better be, if he doesn’t want those molten DVDs poured into his nose.
Yeah, I sure called it wrong last week. I was sure Helo wouldn’t go because he wouldn’t leave Athena & kid behind. Oops.
Gaeta too? Doesn’t he like, openly hate Starbuck? Very strange group and you’re right, there’s got to be tons of hopefully important plot setup. Then again, maybe they all are redshirts and Moore’s planning on mopping up some more loose character threads.
Also, didn’t the final four all mostly agree to put a gun to their own heads if they started betraying humans? Guess Tori shot that out of the water. Or airlock.
In a previous post I mentioned something about watching for a constellation at the scifi webiste. I know a lot of you probably won’t do that and I’m curious what you guys think about this so I’ll just say what I saw. When the Cylon basestars jump, and just prior to the attack, we can see the constellation Orion very clearly in the background. It’s even framed by clouds and very prominently visible in the background. Since constellations are at the heart of the map to Earth I wondered if you think this is intentional or not? Do you think there is some signifcance to putting Orion in the show?
Does anyone know from how far away and in what position those stars would still be seen as a constellation?
In terms of a society that had faster-than-light technology, you’d pretty much have to be very close to earth to see the stars in the same configuration.
No more than one or two lightyears at most. That means the Cylons are definitely in the 'hood. So either they know Earth is there and are biding their time for the Colonials to finally arrive, or they don’t know it’s Earth and just happen to be nearby without realizing where they are. If any of Natalie’s crew survives the attack the nearest planet for them to stop and recuperate would have to be Earth.
I meant to add - if they are coming to Earth I have dibs on an 8! 
AUs, parsecs or Light years?
I just realized that Athena and Helo are both on Demetrius. Who’s taking care of Hera?
Is it wrong that when Callie was airlocked, I immediately thought of all us Dopers who longed for that moment so often? And I felt bad, because that scene was rough. Tory is eeeeeeevil.
Also, anyone else catch that Boomer 8 is having an affair with one of the Cavils, which is why she voted against the other 8’s, and the 6’s and 2’s? We also saw her dancing naked for him last ep. Is this the first time we’ve seen Cylons having romantic affairs with each other? Besides when D’Anna and 6 were sharing Baltar, that is. I wonder if this is a quirk of the Cylons who’ve lived among humans, or if I’m forgetting something and this is not something new.
The Cylons seem to search each other out. Boomer had an affair with the Chief (Cylon) and Tory and Anders were familiar with each others circuitry before they knew they had circuits. There is something in their makeup that attracts them to each other. That said, I think this is the first time we’ve seen them pairing off in the Cylon world so now we know they’re just romantics at heart too - which is new because previously we’ve only seen them using sex as a tool.
This is from last weeks episode but it’s still relevant. I noticed in the Cylon world that Cavil refers to his fellow Cylons by their model numbers - the 3’s, 6’s, 8s, etc. He doesn’t appear to acknolwedge individuals - only the production line. On the other hand, Natalie refers to them as individuals calling them by name, Cavil and Boomer.
Are the Cylons still evolving? Are some models more human than machine now?
Could be Cavil is playing a power game, both by reminding them that he’s Number One with all that implies, and by denying their implicit claim to an identity of their own as individuals.
From what I’ve read of Stockwell, and from the other weird-ass roles he’s played, I don’t doubt he’s loving every moment of these scripts.
I’m not sure I’m buying how totally Boomer has switched sides since discovering her true identity, unless she’s feeling some need to prove her bona fides to the other Cylons by being even more Cylonish than they are.
Science fiction can be as good as any other genre, but BSG still isn’t really science fiction - it’s fantasy. Or at least, fantasy in a science fiction setting, like Star Wars.
I’m curious about that. Would you elaborate?
And Hag Sameach.
Great point! She could be using sex to get close to the boss but with her own ulterior motives. But then, Hell hath no fury like a Cylon scorned and Boomer, more than any other, has been spurned by the people she loved. She may be lashing out and allying herself with those who most hate the humans because she hates them for rejecting her.
First of all, let me note that IMO, science fiction and fantasy are not two seperate things, but rather two vaguely defined subgenres of the same genre. That’s why some of the best writers in the fiekd- Martin, LeGuin, Wolfe etc. - easily shift between the two.
Now, as for BSG, the following are reasons I think it could be better describes as fantasy:
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The show’s complete and utter interest in science. Four seasons in, and we have no idea how the ships work, how the FTL drives work, how the weapons work, how thw Cylons work. How many episodes have been based upon actual or made-up scientific occurances? How many have been resolved by the innovative use of technology? Zero.
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On the other hand, the show has an obsession with prophecies, myths, gods and heroes. Characters have destinies, they have quests, and occasionally, they come back from the dead. These are all fantasy tropes, and are not commonly found in SF - and when they are, they’re seen as false or as manipulative. I don’t see any of the latter in BSG.
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The fact that the show makes no effort to portray society as any different from our current one - it’s basically 2008 America on spaceships, right down to the Humvees. Most science fiction at east tries to pay lip service to futuristic or alien societies being, well, futuristic or alien. Not so fantasy. The vast majority of fantasy is set in a world clearly based on a specific place and time in history - usually medieval Europe, I’ve also seen also ancient Rome, feudal Japan and various others. BSG takes the modern day world, but the effect is the same.
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The Star Wars element - as I said above, most SF fans would claim that SW is fantasy, not SF. So tell me this: in what way is BSG more science-fiction-ey than SW?
For what it’s worth… I really liked this episode. Then again, I also liked Black Market (although the introduction and elimination of a ‘long term romantic relationship’, all in one episode, still rankles). I’m just happy to see the BSG world for an hour or so each week. Sure, I was a bit baffled by why the Demetrius is stocked to the brim with the Galactica’s elite. But as to the Cylon civil war, and wherever they’re going with Lee’s new career… I’m happy to wait. It seems to me that they’re setting up some majorly important story arcs for the final season, and I’m willing to let them build the suspense a bit and get things going slowly.
As for Cally getting backfisted (awesome!)… I honestly don’t think that makes Tory evil. Not really. I mean… she had just found out that A) they’d been compromised B) by someone who was willing to sacrifice herself and her child due to the horror of her realization. At that point, it seemed to be an issue purely of survival; if Cally had a chance to flap her lips in front of, say, a news crew? Four of the final five would’ve been tossed out airlocks by an angry mob. Tory was ruthless, certainly. But not evil. Evil would’ve been spacing the kid, too.
I would argue that “The Force” causes Star Wars to be more fantasy oriented than Galactica. The Force is more or less magical. With BSG, we don’t know if Starbuck is a Cylon of one form or another. There is no claim other than the character’s belief that the prophecy of Apollo’s Arrow or whatever is fantastic in nature.
I don’t see the lack of explanation as to how something works as being fantastic. Science Fiction to my mind postulates something about science that doesn’t exist, and makes a story of it. Consider Star Trek. The primary idea for the series could be considered to be, “What if Horatio Hornblower could travel faster than light?”
Consider Firefly as science fiction. It holds up pretty well with the premise, “What if the setting for Stagecoach were space rather than the Great American West?” River begins to some fantastic things, but it is explained not by the Force but by technology from some secret government laboratory.
But if you consider fantastic elements to move a story from one genre to the other, than Deep Space Nine must be fantasy rather than science fiction, since the Prophets are deemed to be real as Sisko returns from death. Is it science fiction as long as the Prophets are “Worn Hole Aliens”, and fantasy if they are mystical beings?