Battlestar Galactica; "The Ties That Bind" 18 April '08 (open spoilers)

Cafe Society
121

[QUOTE=carnivorousplant]
He seems to have been acting awfully sissy lately. The meeting with the President comes to mind. Is it the actor or the character?
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The change has been coming ever since he was sitting in space during the attack on the resurrection ship. He seems to have discovered that shooting guns wasn’t fixing problems and may even have been the cause of the problems they are currently in. He went through an identity crisis that puts him where he is now. But now he’s a fish out of water. I like that about this show, characters change and it takes several episodes for the change to manifest itself.

122

[QUOTE=FinnAgain]
…she killed Doc Cottle?!?
:wink:
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Heh! I was thinking the same thing. Cottle would make a great number 12, and I’d love to see a scene with Cavil (number 1) arguing with Cottle (number 12).

123

I was actually engaging in a rousing game of “find number 12” the other night. Based, primarily, on the Ron Moore “annotated Last Supper” picture.

He “let slip” that #12 is not anybody in the picture… and that means we’ve eliminated virtually every major, and most minor characters on the show. Other than Dee and, I dunno, perhaps Billy if he came back from the dead. (Then again, a part of me is still expecting Tigh’s wife to show up again, sooner or later.) I don’t think that it’s Zarrick… and for some reason, Cottle just seemed most likely to me.
Dunno why. But evidently great minds think alike :smiley:
P.S. Of course, Moore also helped engineer the whole “Is Starbuck dead? Well, Katee Sakhoff’s contract hasn’t been renewed and she is looking for other work, so…” thing.
He may be trying to throw us off the trail, and Starbuck may be #12.

She’s certainly going a bit schitzo. And WTF is up with her anyways? She went from dedicated and certain that she could find Earth to, smarmy, capricious, horny (and wonderfully foul mouthed) and… artistic?
And she did, after all, come back from the dead. Something that only Cylons have been able to do so far, for obvious reasons. She also had a Viper that was essentially brand new, suggesting that she got it from stockpiles that were captured by the Cylons, since there exist no other Colonial ships and Earth certainly wouldn’t have a matching Viper for her to fly.

124

[QUOTE=FinnAgain]
He “let slip” that #12 is not anybody in the picture…
[/QUOTE]

As you suggest, this statement of his is of questionable reliability. He made some other statements about the image, such that the poses reflected something about the fate of the characters, that was debunked, I think, when it was revealed that he had had no input into the poses.

125

[QUOTE=FinnAgain]
She went from dedicated and certain that she could find Earth to, smarmy, capricious, horny (and wonderfully foul mouthed) and… artistic?
[/QUOTE]

Keep in mind that she’s been painting that same thing since she was a kid.

126

[QUOTE=FinnAgain]
…She also had a Viper that was essentially brand new, suggesting that she got it from stockpiles that were captured by the Cylons, since there exist no other Colonial ships and Earth certainly wouldn’t have a matching Viper for her to fly.
[/QUOTE]

But she has a new Mark II Viper, not a Mark VII. The Mark IIs were used in the first Cylon War; by the time of the miniseries the Colonial Fleet was using Mark VII Vipers. Tyrol had salvage Mark IIs from dumpyards to get the Mark IIs Galactica uses (they were orginally intended only for the decomissioning ceremony and then museum pieces). Any Viper stockpiles that fell into Cylon hands would be of Mark VIIs (or possibly Mark VIs), not Mark IIs.

127

[QUOTE=Frazzled]
The stars in Orion are spread out over three dimensions so any change of perspective will change the appearance of the constellation. Given the apparent size of the constellation and the orientation of the stars presented in the show I still think the Cylons found whatever clue was in the nebula at the end of last season and have found Earth.
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I’m going to play with it in Celestia just for fun and see how far I can fly away before Orion starts looking weird…maybe I’ll try and post screenshots if the beer doesn’t get me first :slight_smile:

128

[QUOTE=GargoyleWB]
I’m going to play with it in Celestia just for fun and see how far I can fly away before Orion starts looking weird…maybe I’ll try and post screenshots if the beer doesn’t get me first :slight_smile:
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Awesome, I can’t wait to hear what you find out :slight_smile:

I could be reading too much into it, if they had made it look funny I would never have noticed the constellation. It’s possible it’s just a hint to the viewers that the Cylons are on the right track and fast closing in on Earth.

129

[QUOTE=acsenray]
As you suggest, this statement of his is of questionable reliability. He made some other statements about the image, such that the poses reflected something about the fate of the characters, that was debunked, I think, when it was revealed that he had had no input into the poses.
[/QUOTE]

Hrm. But just because he didn’t have input, doesn’t mean he wasn’t accurately describing the process that other folks went through. Then again, that’s still a bit of a devil’s advocate answer on my part, as I honestly do think that Moore is probably having a bit of a laugh.

[QUOTE=OpalCat]
Keep in mind that she’s been painting that same thing since she was a kid.
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Maybe I was wrong, but I thought she was painting an entire ‘skyskape’, and not just the Eye of Jupiter. No?

And still, she’s gotten rather fucked up in the course of one single episode. Yes, one that’s supposed to show about a month of time has passed, but she seems to be ‘losing it’, one way or another.
But perhaps it’s too obvious, and she’s not #12.

If that’s the case, Moore and co better have a damn good explanation as for how she survived getting made dead, and got a brand new ship out of the deal.
And for that matter, I still want to know how Laura, Athena and Six all had the same damn vision.

[QUOTE=alphaboi867]
But she has a new Mark II Viper, not a Mark VII. The Mark IIs were used in the first Cylon War; by the time of the miniseries the Colonial Fleet was using Mark VII Vipers. Tyrol had salvage Mark IIs from dumpyards to get the Mark IIs Galactica uses (they were orginally intended only for the decomissioning ceremony and then museum pieces). Any Viper stockpiles that fell into Cylon hands would be of Mark VIIs (or possibly Mark VIs), not Mark IIs.
[/QUOTE]

You’re right. The stockpiles the toasters captured would’ve been MK VII. However, they still woud’ve had access to the same junkyards as the Chief.

What’s more, and something that’s gotten to me since the miniseries… I think Galactica was allowed to survive, specifically. Caprica Six had access to absolutely all the info for the fleet, and so she would have know that out of all the battlestars, only Galactica would be invulnerable to the Cylon computer virus. IIRC, several Cylons were on the ship/fleet as well, both immediately during, before and after the attack (Doral, Cavil, Leoban, Six?)

And either by coincidence or design, they have ‘agents’ currently who are very close to the Admiral, President, CAG and one who is himself the Chief and who could easily sabotage the entire viper fleet.

Now, that’s probably all just fankwankery. No bones about that. I’m sure the show’s creators didn’t plan this many seasons ahead, and they’re probably making up the Cylons “plan” as they go along. But still… I’d credit Starbuck’s new MK II as being much most likely from a Cylon salvage program (as we know they did salvage captured Colonial ships).

130

[QUOTE=FinnAgain]
Maybe I was wrong, but I thought she was painting an entire ‘skyskape’, and not just the Eye of Jupiter. No?
[/quote]

Opal’s right. Remember in her apartment on Caprica, where she had that huge mural? She’s always been artistic. It’s always been starscapes too IIRC.

She was hysterical, screaming lunacy last ep. She’s been in trouble before for having problems with authority. I like her but she often makes personal decisions that I think are pretty insane. Right now, she’s a nut on a mission. She’s reminding me of Captain Ahab.

Couple of random thoughts:

Will Cavil and Chief have a showdown over Boomer? The removal of Cally from the story, plus this revelation of the relationship between Cavil and Boomer makes me wonder if the story is going that way. It would be interesting, because one represents a total machine mentality, and the other is very “human.” Boomer has really departed from her human nature, but who knows where they could go with this?

I wonder if Starbuck is going to get pregnant. They really made sure we knew that she was frakking Anders’ brains out. That would be the third Cylon/human hybrid, which might be meaningful.

131

[QUOTE=FinnAgain]
I think Galactica was allowed to survive, specifically.
[/QUOTE]

This was mentioned before, perhaps by you. It would really piss me off. Our Heroes survive not due to their valor, intelligence and low animal cunning, but to some stupid ass, Deux Ex Machina however you spell it Cylon master plan that “has happened before, and will happen again.”
Time to break out the DVD smelter.

132

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
Opal’s right.
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Woohoo!

133

[QUOTE=OpalCat]
Woohoo!
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It had to happen eventually. :wink:

134

[QUOTE=FinnAgain]
Maybe I was wrong, but I thought she was painting an entire ‘skyskape’, and not just the Eye of Jupiter. No?
[/QUOTE]
She’s been painting the Eye of Jupiter pattern since she was a kid, but what she was painting on her cabin wall wasn’t that familiar pattern, definitely more. She was also pouring over star charts and using her good old-fashioned compass.

135

[QUOTE=levdrakon]
She was also pouring over star charts and using her good old-fashioned compass.
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I reckon two dimensional star charts work when you have a fixed point of reference, like a planet, but it would seem to be difficult to use for three dimensional navigation.

136

[QUOTE=carnivorousplant]

Time to break out the DVD smelter.
[/QUOTE]

I think you might be safe. Originally I was going to say to break out the lighter fluid because I was thinking about the Cylon Transponder that was planted on the Galactica bridge in the mini series. However, there have been too many cases where the Cylons genuinely tried to destroy the Galactica, including the battle over New Caprica, to not think the Cylons want to destroy them. I believe they are being driven, but not all of the Cylons have received the memo to let Galactica survive.

By the way, I found a screen capture of Orion:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3156/2428997923_c1c90b486b_o.jpg

137

[QUOTE=carnivorousplant]
I reckon two dimensional star charts work when you have a fixed point of reference, like a planet, but it would seem to be difficult to use for three dimensional navigation.
[/QUOTE]
Well, it’s like those models they scoot around the light table in CIC planning their 3D combat missions. Looks cool.

138

Probably this is complete wankery but: Don’t you think humans would have developed some kind somewhat useful 2d representations/notations for 3d navigation and long range combat situations? Like maybe having to plot courses on two or three different maps and combining the results or something? Seems the human military had a number of reasons to want low-tech backup systems…

eta: though thinking about it, it would require an incredibly large archive of maps, or alternatively a bunch of recent long range scans from sufficiently different perspectives to make an instant set of maps for the area being navigated.

139

[QUOTE=levdrakon]
Well, it’s like those models they scoot around the light table
[/QUOTE]

Oh yeah! I was whining about them last year. Or was it year before last? :slight_smile:

140

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
Opal’s right. Remember in her apartment on Caprica, where she had that huge mural? She’s always been artistic. It’s always been starscapes too IIRC.
[/quote]

TBH, I thought that the mural was just of the Eye of Jupiter… but it’s been a while. I loaned all the BSG DVD’s I own to my brother… so I can’t check to make sure. Le sigh.
Even without that, she does seem to be going round the bend. She never shirked her duties as CAG to paint, for example, although she did in order to drink. Now, she’s totally neglecting the morale of her entire crew.

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]

She was hysterical, screaming lunacy last ep.
[/quote]

Point, but that was because she thought she’d lose Earth. Now that she’s been put back on the right path, she seems, if anything, to have deteriorated even further.

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]

Right now, she’s a nut on a mission. She’s reminding me of Captain Ahab.
[/quote]

Probably a good comparison, all in all. Then again, we all know what happened to Ahab. And most of his crew.

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]

Will Cavil and Chief have a showdown over Boomer? The removal of Cally from the story, plus this revelation of the relationship between Cavil and Boomer makes me wonder if the story is going that way.
[/quote]

I tend to doubt it, only because the Chief seems to be way, way over her. Could be wrong though, and it’d only take a few lines of dialog to ‘prove’ that he was carrying a torch for her all those years. Maybe a flashback thrown in for good measure. I hope that they don’t go that route though, to be honest. This is the last season. I want them to wrap up all the relationships/story arcs, not create new soap opera drama this late in the game.

I’m also really curious how they’re going to introduce the two types of Cylons to each other, and what’ll happen then. I’d almost be willing to put money on, say, Tigh being asked to go along on some sort of ‘diplomatic mission’ to negotiate something, or having one of the meatbag Cylons come onto Galactica… when their Centurion guards recognize Tigh and automatically defer to his authority.
Awkward pause ensues, both humans and meatbag Cylons looking at Tigh with utter disbelief as the centurions kneel to him or something, and Tigh awkwardly stammering. And then commercials roll and we get the “next week, on Battlestar Galactica…”

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]

I wonder if Starbuck is going to get pregnant. They really made sure we knew that she was frakking Anders’ brains out. That would be the third Cylon/human hybrid, which might be meaningful.
[/QUOTE]

Well, yeah… I could both see them making something of the “triumvirate” of the new species, and/or writing Starbuck in as knocked up. But good goddamn, I hope not. Mostly because the mere thought of Starbuck having and caring for a child makes me cringe.