Aside from any specific incident, I think it’s important that kids understand that they don’t have a right to always know everything. Sometimes the answer is going to be “for good and sufficient reasons, and you will have to trust me that I have your best interest at heart”. Now, that only works if you really do have their best interest at heart, and have consistently demonstrated this in the past.
Basically, I think parents who always explain are doomed to start lying to their kids, and once you start lying to your kids, from what I have seen, it can become an awfully easy way out, and a very bad habit.
Frankly, some kids are never going to believe that your reasons for not wanting them to go to the park are “valid”: they know they would be safe on their own, they know it’s not that dark, they know it’s not going to rain, whatever. If you are committed to keep arguing until they decide your reason is good enough, then, one, you’ve put the power in the relationship in their hands and two, you’ve set yourself up to where, eventually, you’ll be like 'Because there were reports of a child molester there last week" or whatever.
And there are also things that kids just don’t get to have explained: they don’t have an automatic right to know why mommy and daddy are divorcing, or why mommy is crying today, or what mommy and daddy did last night while they, the kid, stayed with grandma. I think it’s a good idea to establish fairly early that total understanding isn’t something a person is entitled to, nor to they have the right to demand a complete explanation. There’s something to be said for practicing this dynamic on smaller things before they become big ones.
This is the heart of the matter. Also that 90% of the time my children whine, “Why noooooot?” they actually know the answer, but are trying to effing wear me down till I give them what they want.
Children are relentless wheedlers, and they’re very, very good at identifying cracks in your armor and wedging them open. They also don’t have other agendas like keeping a household together or earning a living, so they can devote 100% of their psychological resources into worrying at you like a terrier with lockjaw.
I explain a lot, but there comes a time when I shut down further discussion of the matter in a totally authoritarian way because otherwise I would lose my mind.
In a perfect world you would never say it but sometimes as a parent I wil resort to it. It’s Ok for kids to respect authority sometimes, the trick it use it sparingly, if over used then you either condition your kids to accept authority too often or have them rebel.
Also, for the vast majority of kids, “explanation I don’t agree with” is exactly the same as “no explanation at all”, and in fact gets filed away in the same category, to be forever remembered that way. You may not want the kid to drive the car on the express way in the rain because they are a new driver and you worry about their safety, but they know they are a perfectly safe driver. That’s fucking obvious. So that can’t be your reason, that’s just some bullshit their parents are pulling for who knows what reason. A parent can explain themselves six ways from Sunday, with charts, graphs, and expert testimonials, but if the kid is unconvinced, the parent will have to eventually say some version of “I am sorry you don’t agree with my reasons, but I am the parent and I’ve made the decision and you have to accept it” and all the kid will remember is “I’ve made the decision. You have to accept it”. All the explanations are dismissed as irrelevant noise.
I think kids are entitled to an explanation of things that affect them or required of them, and I’ve always provided that to mine.
But even my four (pretty good kids) will argue because they don’t like a situation or a rule, not because they don’t understand it. And while I’m willing to work out a reasonable compromise as to how to get to where we need to be (safe, homework done/good grades, household responsibilities met, reasonably respectful to others) the discussion is over when I’ve explained myself and I know the child understands the reasons, not when they agree.
I don’t think I’ve said “because I said so” but over 25 years it might have slipped out once or twice…
I think we probably generally agree–I don’t think the “For good and sufficient reason” line should come out often–but do you really feel like they are always entitled to know why? I am thinking about things like a friend with parents that set off your alarm bell, so you forbid sleepovers at that house, or Whynot’s example of an 8-year old wanting to dress too skimpily, or, as I mentioned above, the reasons for a divorce (which most kids would absolutely see as something that affected them: they would see it as primarily about them).
It’s good to have a reason and a parent should always be asking themselves why they make the choices they do for their children. And part of raising your child involves teaching them to think for themselves and explaining your decisions helps in that.
But ultimately a parent-child relationship is not a relationship between equals. The parent is the one in charge and they get the final word on decisions. Another lesson a child needs to learn is how to accept authority.
I’ve tried asking my children why thy think something is wrong or why they shouldn’t do it, and they usually come back with some smart ass answer they know contradicts what I would say.
Super fun raising two 5 year old comedians :rolleyes:
For example I just asked my son “why do you think it would be unsafe to play outside in the dark by yourself?”
Son answers"because fireflies will come down and try to set you on fire"
I do. Sometimes you have to put it in simple terms and even edit out things that are not relevant to the kid, but I think an age-appropriate explanation is due to kids if you are changing their lives or asking them to do something they don’t want to do.
I haven’t had to put my kids through a divorce, but there have been friends whose parents weren’t willing or able to supervise my kids properly. I’ve told my kids, “Joey’s mom does things differently and I’m not comfortable with you spending the night there.”
By the time they’re old enough for sleepovers they know that different households have different rules so this was not puzzling to them.
Maybe your kids are different, but mine ( and I as a child ) would have heard that as “Because I said so” or “for good and sufficient reasons, and you will have to trust me that I have your best interest at heart” . It’s really the same idea, just in different words. You’re not explaining why it is that you are not comfortable ( and I’m not suggesting you should) , just stating that you are uncomfortable and therefore they will not be spending the night.
There seems to be some invalid assumptions on the part of the OP. A five year old child isn’t the peer of an adult parent. Neither is a 15 year old for that matter. I suspect the five year old is less interested in understanding “why” they aren’t allowed to do something as they are interested in finding some sort of loophole. That’s why it’s really not worth it to even engage in a debate with a child. You do it because I am the one with the authority and there will be consequences if you don’t.
When you are older, we can engage in a socratic debate.
For what it’s worth, my daughter did ask me just this week why her dad and I got divorced. We’ve talked about it in the past, but as she ages, she asks again, and I know that means something has come up that she needs to process at another level. So it went something like this:
“I was just wondering…mumble mumble mumble…never mind…”
“What’s up, hon?”
“Well…”
“…”
hug
“Why did you and Daddy get divorced?”
“Well, I don’t know how much you remember, 'cause you were pretty little. But Daddy and I fought a lot, and hurt each other’s feelings. And we tried and tried to get along better, but we just couldn’t do it. We decided we’d be happier living in two houses and not fighting all the time and just concentrating on being good parents to you and your brother. We can get along pretty well as long as we don’t live together.”
This was NOT a time for a Socratic dialogue or a “because I said so”. This was a clear and direct request for information, and yes, she does deserve an age appropriate answer. She doesn’t need all the details about emotional abuse and sexual frigidity and infidelity. But she does need a why, and that’s the best why I can give her. She doesn’t have to agree with me that it was necessary, or like it that her parents are divorced, but she does need to understand why, at the level she’s capable of understanding.
Yea, but it is entertaining trying to engage a 5 year old in a Socratic debate. The quizzical looks as to why you are being so weird and asking funny questions are priceless.
I get this face from my daughter a lot when I am asking her about why she thinks something is the way it is or asking for her opinion and she doesn’t understand why I am, or is irritated with me, asking her so many questions. My son just laughs,
I guess it is better than the eye rolls I will get when they are older
Learning that sometimes you just do what the authority figure tells you to do is, actually, a useful adult skill. I’ve run an operating room in a war zone, and I really would not like to have tried to do it without techs that didn’t understand that there is a time for questions, and there is a time for just following instructions.
There’s that (well, maybe not the “run an OR in a war zone” thing, but stuff like it), and there’s also the fact that some kids have the negotiating skills of a Hollywood agent. Like mine. He will look for loopholes that are smaller than the eye of a needle, then wedge them open a bit at a time until he can walk through them and get what he wants. “Because I said so” isn’t just about getting him to shut the hell up for the sake of my sanity, it’s making clear that he is approaching a boundary that is not open for discussion or negotiation, and that he’s not going to win.
Many of these things tend to happen because parents tend to know their kids. I know how the sprog will deal with most situations because I know how he’s dealt with similar situations in the past. I know when “because I said so” is acceptable, and I know when he needs a more definitive, nuanced discussion. And that’s all it is.
In The Nephew’s case, “because I said so” was the tantrum-trigger. “No time explain later” was ok; also, after a talk on Home Ec which whittled down to “since it’s Mom and Dad who make the money that’s needed to pay for things and services it’s Mom and Dad who decide what to buy and where to go”, “who makes the money?”
He’s now seven and was recently heard saying “I hate it that you guys are always outreasoning me!” Keep on sharpening those skills, kiddo; I’ve known your Da since he was born and you’re smarter than he is, someday you’ll outreason him. And he outreasons your mother any time he wants to…
The Niece was showing the same tendencies but, having previous experience, The Proud Daddy went for the logical approach a lot sooner.
FTR, our parental family has always been hellbent on the “explain as much as possible” approach. I think it worked well - it sure worked better than my mother’s “cos I’m your mother” (as the Mafalda strip says, “and I’m your daughter and we graduated on the same day”).
Both my sister in law’s family and my mother’s were of the “cos I said so” kind. It worked for them, until they mixed with us.
I still run into people whose reasoning to me is “cos I said so!” and I’m in my mid-40s. It’s a surefire way to lose any respect I might have for them.
