Whatever. It’s a method of deflecting the reality of the situation. Haven’t you ever talked to doctors, policemen, ex-military personnel and heard what kind of warped sense of humor they have? Trust me, the humor here is pretty tepid compared to that. When I worked in Bosnia and Croatia, I heard more than my fair share of ethnic and genocide jokes, and I don’t think it gets any unfunnier than that. Yet, given the grotesqueness of the situation, it was, IMHO, a valid way of dealing with the stress of the situation. You’d go nuts otherwise. It’s a coping mechanism.
Zoe, without getting into the specifics of this case, keep in mind that military bases typically are huge places. They incorporate living areas for troops, working areas, ceremonial areas, and public areas. These are all treated at different levels of security. The public may not visit all of them, and indeed, certain military members will find parts of base off limits to them as well.
A wonderful example of this is when my wife and I went to Hawaii two years ago. I was there doing work on a Navy contract, she came along because we were able to get another cheap ticket to Hawaii, and the room was paid for by work. I was cleared, because of my job, to visit submarines moored at Pearl Harbor, and work on equipment installed on them. My wife, obviously, could not do this.
We were both, however, free to visit the Arizona memorial, which is also located on the Pearl Harbor base.
So the answer is, it varies. Parts of military bases are open, and parts aren’t. And it depends on the base. In the case of Dover, I’m sure they don’t want untrained civilians on the flightline - this is generally the case with military airfields. So in this part of base would be off limits to the public at all times.
All flightlines on all Air Force Bases are very restricted, to the point where you have to enter through a guarded Entry Control Point and show (or at least possess) a base authorized line badge (or be on the orders for the airplane you’re going to). Further, taking personal photographs of any flight line is absolutely forbidden. We’re talking jail time here. If you walk on a flight line without the proper authorization, the Security Forces guarding the flight line are authorized to shoot you without warning (though they virtually always arrest you rather than shoot you).
On the other hand, you can bring a friend through the gate, visit museums, shop at the BX, whatever. It’s a pretty serious contrast from area to area, and I’m not really even conscious of it anymore because I fly so much. A civilian who has never been on a base or a veteran who hasn’t been near a flight line for years would never be able to recognize the danger.
Well, that certainly got confused. Actually, what I said was that I failed to understand why the Bergs might be prohibited from entering the base when the AMC museum, which is on base property, is open to the public. Anyway, as Mr. Moto mentioned, there are varying levels of security on any large base, and the flightline and hanger areas tend to be highly secure zones. It may be that the only refusal was for the Bergs to access the flightline (if indeed any of this ever happened, as the story seems to have completely disappeared).
Apparently, you cherry pick your stories. The little bullet point blurb you quoted was a condensed version of the original news report from Knight Ridder.
Philadelphia funeral director Carl Goldstein said the Bergs were “very happy to have Nick back in the United States,” though the Department of Defense declined a request, made through the office of U.S. Sen. Arlen Specter, R.-Pa., to allow the family to retrieve their son’s body from Dover Air Force Base.
It hasn’t changed that much, Airman. Back when I was a jet fighter mechanic (before you were born) a buddy and I were taking our tool boxes out to work on an F-106 on the flightline. Buddy forgot his security badge and the Crew Chief, who knew us both, called the AP’s anyway. They stripped my buddy to his skivvies and spread-eagled him face down with rifles at his head while one of them drove me back to get his badge from the barracks.
This sticks with me because, rifles or not, he kinda’ dozed off laying there on the warm concrete waiting for us to get back with the badge.
When they finally had him identified, they told him to get up and he had this HUGE boner sticking out through his underwear. Unforgettable moment. But security around the flightline has been tight for a long time.
By Libertarian: "Apparently, you cherry pick your stories. "
WHAT did you say? Reeder cherry pick stories? Stories that might in some vague way reflect poorly on the current administration? I’m shocked and appalled.
El Kabong, sorry for totally misreading what you said!
Thanks to all of you who have “cured my ignorance” on the matter. I think I understand why they might have been denied access.
Flightline is not a familiar term for me, but I come from a non-military family. I think from the context in which it has been used, I have a general understanding.
Fort Campbell is only forty or fifty miles away and I have been on base a couple of times. That’s why I was confused by what I misread.
While I feel sorry for the Bergs at the loss of their son, I find it interesting that the DOD got involved with transporting his remains back to the US. Nick Berg was in Iraq on his own venture. He was not a member of the military nor was he employed by a DOD contractor (to my knowledge). Were his remains transported at taxpayer expense due to the horrific & public nature of his death or because his remains were discovered by the military?
I’m not saying that it shouldn’t have happened, just trying to understand the precedence involved.
Just want to clear up one thing. The Air Mobility Command Museum at Dover AFB is open to the public now. It’s true that post 9/11 we were closed to all but DOD ID card-carrying folks, but since last October we’ve been open to all visitors. The museum is now fenced off from the rest of the base with our own separate entrance. In fact this weekend the museum is the site for Dover AFB’s airshow which draws tens of thousands of visitors.
Entrance to the base is still pretty much restricted to people with DOD ID cards (military, civil service, retired, etc.).
And like Airman Doors and others said, flightline security is tighter.
I’m not sure that his parents being refused permission to go to the base mortuary is such a terrible thing. I believe their son’s body would be transferred to a local funeral home or wherever else they designated after arrival at the base. But I do know that their son would receive the utmost in respectful treatment from the people at the base who handle the remains.
Right, but the Bushco policy statement is alright with you? Berg was there under his own free will. Bush didn`t send him over there.
There are thousands of contractors in the country right now and only a few have been handled maliciously so far.
The area of Dover Air Force Base where bodies are unloaded is a classified area, Papa Tiger tells me. He used to be flight crew aboard flights bringing bodies back from Vietnam, and even he wasn’t allowed into the area where the bodies were unloaded. It goes well beyond standard flight line security and is an area requiring special clearance to even enter.
Therefore, the Bergs didn’t get treated any differently than any other family who would want to enter that area. And in this case it’s policy that goes back over 30 years.
As much as I hate Bush and all his cronies and cohorts and wish them public humiliation and rapid defeat, I can’t blame him for this one.
