You’re getting it all wrong, they want the discord to win, the division, the chaos. They’ll support one against the other, then switch then support again.
That is literally not true.
10% of Sanders’ supporters voted for Trump and there is good reason to believe many of them were “never Clinton” people anyway. Sanders was able to draw off some fringe voters from Trump that Clinton could not.
For comparison 25% of Clinton supporters voted for McCain in 2008 (see link above).
In 2016, after Sanders lost, Sanders worked diligently for Clinton to get her elected. Recently, Clinton said she was unsure if she could support Sanders if he was the nominee.
Of the two which one would you say is supporting the party?
This is a fair challenge.
I assume we can all agree that the Russians want Trump to win, right? They do that by… helping him win. Don’t you think the same theory would hold true for Bernie? If they’re helping him win, it’s likely because they want him to win… just like they’ve done for Trump.
The Russians are helping Bernie to dupe you into nominating someone like Sleepy Joe out of fear, thereby guaranteeing Trump’s victory.
Or maybe not. Who gives a fuck what the Russians want? Why don’t we just focus on what we want instead?
Why do you think that?
Here’s a clue to winning an election;
You have to appeal to more than your base. Hillary didn’t, why? Because if the Republican candidate is saying out loud ‘I’ll stop factories being shut down and being sent to Mexico’ That resonates more than anything Hillary could have countenance with. Nobody owes you a vote.
I think you’re a little off here.
First, the 25% figure is the number of Clinton primary voters in 2008 who voted for McCain. The number of Sanders primary voters who voted for Trump in 2016 was 12%, less than half the figure you cited.
Second, the research on these folks is pretty interesting. They were overwhelmingly people who didn’t like Obama, they weren’t Democrats, and they were far likelier than most Democrats to deny white privilege.
IOW, the Sanders voters weren’t Democrats who sulked. They were people who weren’t ever planning on voting for a Democrat until Sanders came along. He could’ve pulled them into the Democratic tent in a way that Clinton couldn’t.
The denial of white privilege is pretty troubling, if you see it as “ooh look it must be that Sanders is racist.” But if you see it as “Sanders is able to build bridges to some voters who’ve got some fucked up ideas and maybe pull them into the tent, and more importantly capture some votes that are otherwise going to Trump,” it’s a lot less troubling.
We know those folks are out there. If we can get their votes without pandering to their racism, all the better.
I didn’t say that 25% of Bernie supporters voted for Trump. I said that 25% of them helped Trump win. People not voting for Hillary helped Trump win, as well.
I’m not a Hillary apologist, by any means.
Yup…the Russians help Trump win by making you think the Russians are supporting Bernie so you vote for Trump.
I guaran-fucking-tee you the Russians do not want Sanders to become president.
What?
Where did you get that number?
You realize that it’s hard to find anybody outside of Bernie’s base that supports him, right?
It is, isn’t it? The challenge was to back your beliefs up with evidence. So why do you respond with this?
That’s not evidence. That’s leading questions and rank speculation, and does very little more than restate one of the competing theories I offered.
Of course it’s simply a theory. That’s what these forums are for, right? I recognized your question as rhetorical, since neither you or I have “evidence” of anything (unless you are working for the U.S. Intelligence Agency, and just playing me here).
Among Biden supporters, 33% hold Sanders as their second choice. Among Warren supporters, that’s 38%. Among Buttigieg and Bloomberg supporters, that’s 20%. Nobody else ranks as highly when you measure “second choice” as Sanders does.
I can tell you’ve got some pretty strong feelings about Sanders. But it may be that they’re based on inaccurate information. Are you open to the idea that things aren’t what you think they are?
Bernie dominated among non-white Democrats today. He had more Hispanic/Latino supporters than all other candidates combined, and came in a relatively close 2nd to Biden among black Democrats. His support has been growing from contest to contest.
Well, no: the question wasn’t rhetorical. I’m a big proponent of admitting ignorance and living in uncertainty when I lack the facts to form an opinion. Folks here keep stating with great certainty why Russia is interfering on Sanders’s behalf. I don’t think that certainty is warranted, but I was giving folks a chance to prove me wrong.
If you’re just shooting the shit and have nothing to back up your speculation, that’s cool, but it’s good to be clear that’s what’s going on.
It sounds like this would indicate that Bernie Sanders is reaching out well beyond his base.
Exactly. South Carolina will be another great test for this.
I’m still amazed at black support for Biden. He has been a disaster for them pretty much his whole career whereas Sanders has been advocating for them his whole life.
But they still like Biden so I am missing something. Just curious why that is.
Nice win but I still say the field is very weak. In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.