That’s not a stereotype; that’s more of a film cliche. You know, like the hooker with a heart of gold, and all that.
A stereotype takes the real or imagined negative aspects of a people, not the positive. Kicking ass isn’t usually shown as a negative thing, unless of course you’re the bad guy.
Stereotype: A conventional, formulaic, and oversimplified conception, opinion, or image.
Ok, a trip to Merriam-Webster shows that’s right, but I’ve always seen it used in a negative light, not a positive one. And I still think the kung-fu-fightin’ babes is a cliche, not a stereotype, since it doesn’t really exist in the real world.
Cliches do exist in the real world.
Film cliches don’t. The kung fu babes thing is a film cliche. It is not a real-world cliche at all.
OK, I’m being needlessly argumentitive now. I apologize.
I will only add that I do ont really belive in a clear cut line between cliche and stereotype, although I could be wrong.
Just to clarify:
Maybe the word “stereotype,” referring to the three women was the wrong word. I was trying to support RickJay point that the movie was about little more than showing off the women’s bodies. Sure they kick ass, but the only women who get to kick ass in movies are young, skinny, attractive women who show lots of skin.
Regarding the Murtaugh role, i do agree with what dantheman said. In criticizing that role, i was not making a point about it being a racial stereotype; i just think the whole series of movies sucked, and i expanded that opinion to include the roles. The specific role played by Glover was not the main problem. It was just the fact that the role was in such a lame-ass movie series.
Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar. This Bosley was pretty much just as doofy as the last one… you know, Bill Murray? Doofy in a slightly different way, mind you, but still… It’s a brainless, kick-ass movie. With much explosions. Looks like they had a heck of a lot of fun making it, too. Fun. Brainless. Explosions. Maybe a little stereotype, but not cringeworthy… I mean, the last one had “The Chad Was Great” Tom Green, Bill Murray talking like Caddyshack and gnawing a gun out of soap, and Tim Curry… in a sumo suit.
Not to mention the least believable hacking scene in the last ten years, and a brief shot of the ET house.
Oh, not to mention taking IndyCar cars… looked old enough to be IndyCar, at least, onto a public road where they’d be wrecked in a few hundred feet.
I had a point here… oh, yeah. Brainless humor, about the same level as a frat comedy. Stereotypes are funny, provided you’re not horribly negative about them. Because, well, people are funny. Heck, Bernie Mac is not the kind of guy who would put up with crap if he didn’t think it was funny. I’ve heard him, I’ve heard him interviewed, and I’m pretty sure if he wasn’t laughing like mad he’d have walked out.
Yeah, me too. . . .
Of course, we’re getting away from the OP. Regardless of how the other characters are presented (i.e., as stereotypes, cliches, or neither), is Bernie Mac’s character a stereotype? A negative black stereotype would be the minstrel image - is he there just to be made fun of, or does he exist on his own? Probably the latter.
I definitely agree (well, I’ve seen only the FT trailers). Character is doofy no matter who plays him - the question is, does the Bernie Mac version promote black stereotypes? Or is he just a doofus? (I go with the latter here, too.)
We had a long discussion about this a while back in IMHO and the conclusion seemed to be that people who self identify with a minority do feel it more when one member of that minority makes a public spectacle of themselves.
I think with blacks it smarts all the more because we, as a whole, really are judged by the worst of the lot. If a black person acheives greatness it is in spite of his blackness. If a black person robs a bank it is because of his blackness.
Black people shouldn’t do this, but we do. I know I do.
I agree with Marc. In fact, if I had come to this thread earlier, this is pretty much what I would have posted.
Agreed.
Personally, I think Keanu Reeves is a stereotype for Dopey Surfer Dude in every movie he’s been in, even when he’s not playing one. 
But noooooo you don’t see people pitting poor, put-upon Keanu, nosiree. And he’s a minority!
I never once considered Bernie Mac to be playing a stereotypically black role in this movie. He was Bosley and that’s how Bosley is supposed to act.
Ditto Chris Tucker in Fifth Element. It never occurred to me that he was the black sidekick.
Chris Tucker and Jackie Chan in Rush Hour – they were equals as far as I’m concerned.
Cuba Gooding Jr., playing a mentally challenged person? Please. Any white guy would kill for a role like that. It’s got Oscar written all over it. But when he does it, he’s fulfilling a stereotype?
I’ll just sit back in my blissful ignorance and let you guys PC yourselves to death.
Igf he were merely playing a retarded person, I’d agree. Buth ave you seen that trialer? The man is shuffling and grinning like Stepin Fetchit on steroids.
Whoopi Goldberg is funny, and she is black. But she has never been in a role that plyed her ehtnicity for laughs. I agree that Chris Tucker was not playing a specifically black role in The Fifth Element; he was being a clown, not a black clown, and that’s the crucial distinction.
Being funny and black is fine; being funny because you’re black and playing a stereotype is not.
Moreover, the new stereotype of the Magical Negro, the black person whose sole concern is to improve the lives of white people is just as pernicious as the old school coonery of the early 20th century. Here’s the link to the trailer for Radio. What does everyone else think?
I recommend that folks in this thread read Donald Bogle’s book, “Toms, Coons, Mulattoes, Mammies, and Bucks: An Interpretive History of Blacks in American Films.”
So are you saying that Bernie has “ruined his reputation” (ha!) as an actor by taking the bosley role?
Obviously if I have a decision between taking a single check and ruining my career I wouldn’t take the part. The fact that almost every single actor today has been in a several shitty movies and gone on to win oscars and such means that the scenario you propose rarely comes up.
Look at all the buzz at Demi Moore these days, where the hell did it come from? For someone who was hiding under a rock for a decade and most recent films included Striptease and GI Jane, her reputation has remained intact fairly well. We could sit here and rattle off a million shitty roles in a million shitty movies, and yet the people that played them have moved on to other shitty roles, collecting generous paychecks along the way.
Out of sheer curiosity, for the people who are taking Mac to task, what did you think of Will Smith’s role in The Legend of Bagger Vance?
Despite the fact that i quite like both Matt Damon and Will Smith, i decided not to see this movie specifically because the reviews that i read suggested that Smith’s role was a rather offensive “mystical, healing black man” type of role. That, and the previews made the film look really lame.
One thing that i think is funny about all this is the way that some people are willing to take to task African American actors for appearing in such roles, but fail to broaden their criticism to include the movie’s writers, producers, etc. After all, Bernie Mac didn’t write his own character for the film.
A similar thing happens sometimes with black sports stars. I remember some years back Michael Jordan (i think) was taken to task by some critics for not spending enough of his millions to help “his” people, i.e. African Americans. But why should responsibility for helping poor blacks rest solely on the shoulders of wealthy blacks? Those same people weren’t criticizing Wayne Gretzky or Brett Favre or Roger Clemens.
Embarrassing and way beneath his stature as an actor. Yet again, he’s the Magical Negro, there to lend a hand to the struggling white folk, with no needs, desires, or inner life of his own. What’s worse, the movie is set in 1928 Savannah, and no notice is taken of the vicious racial attitudes that existed then.