I could have written this, verbatim.
We’re held to a higher standard, donchaknow.
by E-Sabbath:
I disagree. Bill Murray was actually funny in the first film, I thought. Maybe because the comic relief he provided isn’t like the tired racial stereotypical jokes that blacks in comedies have to play. Sure, Bill Bosely acted doofy, but at least he had some wits about him. Bernie Bosley looked out of place, like he didn’t know what the hell was happening half the time. He was reduced to a mumbling puddle of awe just by the sight of a wide-screen TV monitor (and it wasn’t all that big!). That wasn’t so bad, though. It was when the old tired “I live in the ghetto” gag was trotted out (how many times have we seen that one?). The whole cliche was complete with the loud, overbearing mama who comes out of Bosley’s house nagging and yelling about something, wearing a housecoat in the middle of the day. I kept waiting for her to offer somebody a plate of collard greens and fried chicken.
by Rick Jay
You are right about the annoying message this movies sends. In a way, it’s empowering to see women kick ass, but all that wonderful empowerment is diminished when every other shot is a close-up of an ass/breast/tummy. Like we need to see one more movie that makes us feel fat. The whole “I’ll create a diversion with my magnficient bod while you guys go steal the keys” schtick is so played out, and suggests that intelligence and physical strength is not enough for a woman crime-fighter; she must also be an accomplished seductress if she is going to solve the case. And it annoys me that there is not even a pretense of reality about the fight scenes. Yeah, girls can kick ass right along side men…but only in another dimension where Newton’s laws do not apply. Great.
by vivian:
It’s like they think it’s cute to act like dizty third-graders. Maybe in the dimension that Charlie’s Angels is set in, that’s how grown women behave.
I have to say, did you honestly expect a good performance out of this movie? Did you learn nothing from the first one?
I didn’t see the first, though it was playing in my house on DVD and I was in the room. I couldn’t watch, it was painfully stupid.
When I first heard they were doing “Charlie’s Angels”, I was incredibly excited. I was a kid when the show was on TV and I was a big fan…
Then I heard the cast. Drew, Lucy Liu(who I HATE), Cameron Diaz, and Bill Murray. I groaned inwardly. I sighed impatiently. When I saw the trailers I cringed.
I would guess that they switched to Bernie to make it more humorous? Or maybe Bill refused, if he has any dignity left at all.
I could see how the film could be upsetting to black people, as Bernie’s role probably is ignorant and sterotypical…but I don’t think that was Bernie’s intention.
You never know what ends up on the cutting room floor.
FTR, I liked The Legend of Bagger Vance*. Of course, it was filmed in my hometown, so maybe that makes me a bit prejudiced on that perspective.
gobear, racism existed everywhere in America in 1928, not just in Savannah, GA.
~J
Sigh… I lovvvve Lucy…I loveeeeeeeee Lucy… I loveeeeeeeee Lucy…
She should have her own show. Yes indeedy!
Well from what I heard Bill Murray had a horrible experience filming the first one, so he told them to shove it.
Sure it did, but to make a movie dealing with a relationship between and black man and a white man in the South in the 1920s, and pretend that racism was not even an issue, is ostrich-like behaviour.
I watched it and didn’t find it particularly offensive. Also, I don’t think Ed Harris would be starring in something if it weren’t a valuable project.
Maybe that’s his version. The one I heard was that he and Lucy Lu fought like cats and dogs on the first one.
And as far as doofus goes (responding to other posts), they dressed BM up like Charles Nelson Reilly in the party scene. Can’t get much worse than that!
My wife and I watched the first one off of DVD on saturday. She noted that Bill Murray was playing the same damned character he plays in every movie and every sketch he’s ever been in. From there the conversation devolved into “why isn’t he in the second movie”. I cited the above. She suggested that one experience with Bill Murray, since he obviously is that character in real life, was more than enough for the trio.
Haven’t seen the second one yet. I’m disappointed hearing of the stereotype role crap. I had hoped for better.
Oops, just occured to me that ‘BM’ could be read as ‘Bernie Mac’. I meant Bill Murray in the first film, of course.
Regarding Bill Murray not in the sequel - from the IMDb Trivia section of Charlie’s Angels: Full Throttle:
While trying to find how much Bernie made I stumbled across this.
http://entertainment.sympatico.ca/movies/features/charliesangels.html
Sounds like a fucking mess.
Well, let’s be fair, here. He played far different characters in Rushmore and The Royal Tenenbaums, to name a couple. Oh, and Mad Dog and Glory.
Scuttlebutt during the filming of the first movie was that Murray was clashing with Drew Barrymore left and right (no mention of fights with Liu) and since Barrymore is an exec. producer on these flicks, it was a given that there’d be no more Murray. I wouldn’t be surprised if he clashed with the others as well; he’s got a heckuva lot of comedic cred on his resume and if the gals were being pushy about his performance, I can’t imagine he would’ve taken it well at all.
Uh, anyway: do minority performers have a “duty” to avoid roles which could be viewed as stereotypical, especially in the comedy realm, to avoid larger racial implications?
I think it would be good if they did, but I don’t think I can go so far as to say it’s a duty. I haven’t seen “Full Throttle” but now I plan to, to get a look at what the flak is about with Mac. I’ll probably come away disappointed, hopefully I won’t come away disgusted.
cough*[sub]Milk Money*[/sub]cough*[sub]Stepmom[/sub]*cough
As for the OP, why don’t we wait to see if this is a trend, or a one-shot deal before we condemn BM, eh? His TV show is terrific–compassionate, true to its characters, and very funny. I think that show (which he has a lot more creative control over) is a better reflection of his values and priorities than a single film appearance which would give him a ton of much-welcome exposure. Has Martin Lawrence ever played anything besides a jive-talkin’ con-man obsessed with booty, cars, and working as little as possible? And you’re pitting BM?!?!?
I haven’t seen CA2:FT and won’t (the original was badder than bad), but the reviews I’ve read seem to agree that his talent is largely wasted. Given the ADD/Cuisinart editing style of the first film, who knows how much of his part got left out of this one.
And I think it’s funny that people keep bringing up a script for the movie. I suspect the term “script” is being overly generous…
by tlw:
No, they don’t have a duty. But when I see someone stoop to a low level just for a buck, I can’t say that I respect that very much. Hence the rant.
I’ve pitted Bernie Mac, but I don’t think he deserves all the scorn the world can muster. The OP is really about the ubiquitous shucking and jiving character period; BM specifically is the target of my rant because the memory of his performance was fresh in my mind. Now if I had just watched What’s the Worse that Could Happen? starring Martin Lawerence, the thread would have been called “ML, give me back my money”.
Drew “Let me wow you with my bosoms…once again” Barrymore and those poor excuses for writers can also chip in for the cost of my movie ticket. Don’t think I’m letting them off the hook.
I didn’t really notice Bernie Mac humiliating himself in the Charlie’s Angels movie. That bar got set a lot higher for me after Ving Rhames’s Mantan routine in the Mission: Impossible sequel.
Oh, and re Radio, note that it’s based on a true story; the shuffling, grinning mentally-handicapped character is a real guy. Cuba Gooding Jr. doesn’t have the best record when it comes to choosing properties (c.f. Boat Trip or Lightning Jack), but this is intended as a prestige project. I’ll wait for the inevitable TV footage interviewing the actual guy (who I believe died recently) to see whether Gooding’s performance turns him into a stereotype or not.
Are you kidding?
Or Sister Act & Sister Act 2 maybe?
Jumping Jack Flash came immediately to my mind as well, but it’s been so long since I saw it, that I couldn’t immediately remember what sterotypical behavior she might have demonstrated.
mhendo, you are of course, correct. 
Southerner habit I suppose.
I confess. I laughed so hard at What’s the Worse that Can Happen?. The detective with the 1970s outfits? Priceless.
Well, what about roles in which she’s the hired help? Long Walk Home, Corrina, Corrina? Or weren’t those all that demeaning? Oh, how about The Telephone or Kiss Shot? Of course, now we’re getting into the Just Plain Bad Movies.