Best parts of the ill-received Star Trek films

[CaptMurdock]

@Nonsuch

TNG did a lot of episodes that explored real ethical and moral dilemmas without resorting to preachiness. “Who Watches the Watchers,” “The Drumhead,” “The High Ground,” “Inner Light.” Insurrection peddles a bunch of sentimental twaddle about a post-technological society that’s little more than a hippie commune in space.
The whole thing was a contrivance to allow Picard et al to appear like rebellious mavericks, because the creators think movie audiences go for that kind of shit. On the series, disobeying orders, while sometimes necessary, was treated as a matter of grave seriousness (“The Offspring,” “Reunion,” to name a few). It’s not an opportunity for cliché action-movie posturing (Data: “Lock and load!”) aimed at getting the audience to pump their fists into the air. Insurrection runs completely counter to the tone and worldview of the series in this regard.

Tomato, to-mah-to…

[jz78817]

@cormac262

III Search for Spock. Amusing to see Reverend Jim as a Klingon. But overall there just wasn’t much to this one. I always thought this had an odd sub-plot. That basically Kirk’s son, who, along with his mother, are touted as geniuses for creating the Genesis planet at the end of II, is actually kind of a “hack”. That the science project is essentially a failure (except for being able to regenerate Spock’s body). And then the son is killed…but not by Khan, who would have had much more of a vendetta. Tragic, yes. But it seemed like a move just to get him out of the picture so as not to complicate further stories.

IMO it was there (as a plot device) to push Kirk into seeing no other solution than to sacrifice the Enterprise.

[erysichthon]

@johnspartan

For Star Trek: The Motion Picture: The torture of the malfunctioning transporter was really well done, esp. with the limited tech of the day. It’s also the rare time they acknowledge there might be any real “no backsies” risk to what they’re all out there doing. And I’ll put “Enterprise… what we got back didn’t live long. Fortunately.” as perhaps one of the most emotionally tinged lines in the entire run of the show. It’s also frankly one of the few things that actually HAPPENS in this movie.

I don’t think that scene was particularly well-acted. Shatner’s wooden “Oh my God” (which Robert Wise mercifully excised from the director’s cut) is especially cringeworthy.

However, I liked that TMP depicted the transporter as something inherently hazardous, and not just a quick and easy way to get characters in and out of scenes. Teleportation, as depicted in Star Trek, is actually pretty fucked up. Step into a machine that dematerializes me and reassembles me somewhere else? No thanks.

I also liked how the production designer put a wall with a window between the transporter pads and the controls, suggesting that some serious radiation is involved.

[burpo_the_wonder_mutt]

@erysichthon

I don’t think that scene was particularly well-acted. Shatner’s wooden “Oh my God” (which Robert Wise mercifully excised from the director’s cut) is especially cringeworthy.

However, I liked that TMP depicted the transporter as something inherently hazardous, and not just a quick and easy way to get characters in and out of scenes. Teleportation, as depicted in Star Trek, is actually pretty fucked up. Step into a machine that dematerializes me and reassembles me somewhere else? No thanks.

I also liked how the production designer put a wall with a window between the transporter pads and the controls, suggesting that some serious radiation is involved.

Or maybe someone went BOOM all over the chamber. :eek:

[Grrr]

Dammit! TMP was a good movie!

[johnspartan]

@erysichthon

I don’t think that scene was particularly well-acted. Shatner’s wooden “Oh my God” (which Robert Wise mercifully excised from the director’s cut) is especially cringeworthy.

However, I liked that TMP depicted the transporter as something inherently hazardous, and not just a quick and easy way to get characters in and out of scenes. Teleportation, as depicted in Star Trek, is actually pretty fucked up. Step into a machine that dematerializes me and reassembles me somewhere else? No thanks.

I also liked how the production designer put a wall with a window between the transporter pads and the controls, suggesting that some serious radiation is involved.

Someone should make a scene where Shatner’s reaction is swapped in with the South Park line, “Oh my god! They killed Kenny!” “You BASTARDS!”

[Just_Asking_Questions]

@erysichthon

Teleportation, as depicted in Star Trek, is actually pretty fucked up. Step into a machine that dematerializes me and reassembles me somewhere else? No thanks.

That was a big subplot point in the very first ST novel (Spock Must Die!), and the first time I had ever contemplated the machine killing the transportee (I read Algis Budry’s Rogue Moon much later). Unfortunately for my enjoyment of the show, now I always picture everyone in Starfleet as dead, with copies running around.

If they were going to doubletalk it, they should have just said the machine creates some sort of wormhole, joining two points. We wouldn’t have gotten episodes such as The Enemy Within, but at least they all wouldn’t be ghosts!

[johnpost]

if they were ill-received then the best part for all of them would be the ending.

[AncientHumanoid]

@erysichthon

I don’t think that scene was particularly well-acted. Shatner’s wooden “Oh my God” (which Robert Wise mercifully excised from the director’s cut) is especially cringeworthy.

However, I liked that TMP depicted the transporter as something inherently hazardous, and not just a quick and easy way to get characters in and out of scenes. Teleportation, as depicted in Star Trek, is actually pretty fucked up. Step into a machine that dematerializes me and reassembles me somewhere else? No thanks.

I also liked how the production designer put a wall with a window between the transporter pads and the controls, suggesting that some serious radiation is involved.

I teleported home last night with Ron and Sid and Meg

Ron stole Meggy’s heart away and I got Sidney’s leg

.

If you can’t take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It’s not safe out here. It’s wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it’s not for the timid.

[Just_Asking_Questions]

@AncientHumanoid

If you can’t take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It’s not safe out here. It’s wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it’s not for the timid.

Sez the guy who can teleport with a (probably purely for show) finger snap.

[erysichthon]

@Just_Asking_Questions

That was a big subplot point in the very first ST novel (Spock Must Die!), and the first time I had ever contemplated the machine killing the transportee (I read Algis Budry’s Rogue Moon much later). Unfortunately for my enjoyment of the show, now I always picture everyone in Starfleet as dead, with copies running around.

If they were going to doubletalk it, they should have just said the machine creates some sort of wormhole, joining two points. We wouldn’t have gotten episodes such as The Enemy Within, but at least they all wouldn’t be ghosts!

IIRC, Blish’s novel suggested that people who have gone through the transporter don’t have souls. :eek:

[AncientHumanoid]

Spock “No Soul” Simmons

[AncientHumanoid]

Would a half human get a limited time in heaven?

[Smapti]

@Dale_Sams

The Final Frontier-???

“What does God need with a starship?”

[Just_Asking_Questions]

@AncientHumanoid

Spock “No Soul” Simmons

I mean, have you heard him sing??

I’ll take the real thing any day.

[burpo_the_wonder_mutt]

@Just_Asking_Questions

I mean, have you heard him sing??

I’ll take the real thing any day.

Oh, I’m sooooo scaaaaaaared…Ah, hahahahahahahahahaha!

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@johnpost

if they were ill-received then the best part for all of them would be the ending.

That doesn’t follow at all. You can think the film as a whole is a stinking failure while still liking individual scenes.

[Quimby]

Insurrection wasn’t bad exactly. It was just plain, for lack of a better word. It was a good two part episode done with a movie budget.

[johnspartan]

FWIW since we were discussing the transporter malfunction scene, here it is…

Star Trek: The Motion Picture - Transporter Accident

You could, I suppose, explain away Shatner’s (rare!) underacting in response… Captain must be stoic, etc. etc.

[Pushkin]

@HelloKitty

Just rewatched TSFS the other night. I did enjoy the acting in this one. My favorite parts:
[ul]
[li]Kirk falling next to his captain’s chair when told of David’s death [/li][li]Jim…your name…is Jim" at the end. Gets me every time! [/li][li]Klingon: “I do not deserve to live.” Kirk: “Ok, I’ll kill you later” [/li][li]Kirk fighting the Klingon commander on the Genesis planet was pretty cool.[/li][/ul]

There was much to recommend about TSFS, you don’t have to stoop as far as you would for The Final Frontier or the TNG movies. I’ll add the reverence shown for the Enterprise as she falls through The Genesis Planet’s atmosphere.

The Final Frontier does have one or two things to recommend. It did dwell more on the characters than McGuffins (although meeting god at the centre of the galaxy is a heck of a McGuffin) and it ended with everyone still pals and coming out on top, which is a good way for any Trek story to end. The scene in the Enterprise-A’s equivalent of ten-forward, where Sybok attempts to neutralise the command crew by removing the pain that makes them who they are, only to be rebuffed by Shatner channelling a very TOS style Kirk is nicely done too.

Generations feels like a reverse of a TNG episode, which was 90 odd % talk (of which there is a 60/20/10 split of Picard/Data/Everyone else :p) and 10% action. The movie was the other way around, a little exposition, then quite a few reasonably memorable scenes, the champagne bottle opener, the Enterprise warping away from the shockwave of a collapsing star, the saucer section crash landing, another shock wave blasting a planet apart. And yeah, the theme tune was quite nice.

Insurrection I suppose wasn’t grim. It wasn’t much of anything really, but at least it wasn’t grim, like Nemesis, which I can’t in turn recommend at all.