You’re free to ignore my posts and I’ll be grateful if you would. I wasn’t aware that this was the “Let’s all suck Vince Gilligan’s dick” thread, as one of the nonexistent posters who never wrote in this thread at all has never written.
Eh, I think that’s a pretty visceral reaction–I like BCS and have enjoyed this entire storyline, I don’t think it’s wrong to point out Lalo’s or Kim’s or Gus’s plans have had holes in them. I don’t view them as plot holes, though, which may be where I and @Roger_That differ–my understanding of good storytelling is never that a character has to act with “perfect wisdom”, just that their actions have to follow some semblance of logic within the construct of the fictional world. I think Lalo’s actions are in line with his character–remember, he’s a Salamanca, the Salamancas as a group appear to all share one core trait–they put personal grievances and vendettas ahead of logic, good business sense, and rational thought. Lalo probably keeps his cool and is more deliberate than the other Salamancas we are shown (Tuco, Hector and the Twins), but he still has this core trait of putting grievance ahead of what might be the smartest option.
Lalo’s real smartest option would likely have been the same as Don Hector’s 20 years back–don’t fuck with Gus, Gus likely was not primed to be an enemy of the Salamancas until Don Hector killed his friend (vaguely suggested to be his lover)–and it is fairly obvious to me that while Eladio was in charge it was Hector who pushed for that outcome. There was a lot of money to have been made to have just dealt with Gus as a business partner, but the Salamancas were chronically incapable of doing that and pushed things to the point that they got all themselves killed.
Absolutely - the thread is full of comments like this, and it has led to a great discussion of the show and details that people may have missed. But it seems to me that Roger ignores these, and just labels the whole bag of us as sychophants. The thread is also full of people expressing displeasure at both the broad paintbrush as well as the constant negativity (how many times has Roger said that it’s all been too much, that he can’t anymore, etc.?). No one has suggested the writers have been perfect. It’s just tiresome, and I’m expressing my displeasure at the threadshitting.
If Roger is unhappy with this show then perhaps Roger ought to toddle on back to Miss Pat’s Playroom and allow the rest of us to enjoy the final leg of this roller coaster in blessed peace.
And the plans don’t have holes in them, what has holes in is some people’s understanding of what these characters are trying to accomplish. Jimmy wants Kim as far away from Lalo as possible–done. Kim is in shock and trying to figure out the best way to keep Jimmy alive and figures that sticking with the plan is probably her best option–done, and that does turn out to be the wisest course. Lalo wants Gus and Mike busy AF doing anything other than camping out on the laundry hole so he can figure out how to get into it to prove to Don Eladio that what he’s been scoping out from a goddamned sewer for days is for real–done, with the added bonus that Gus figures out where he’s going, and both Gus and Mike figure out that Kim has not been prepped to actually go after a target since she doesn’t know Gus from a rando henchman. So Gus, having prepped the laundry hole just in case he gets Lalo down there puts on body armor and takes a chance–and wins the game. All perfectly within character for all of them, all well set up in advance, as a repeat viewing knowing where it’s all going will show. Just because someone sees another person putting together puzzle pieces but can’t grasp what the overall picture is no matter how many pieces get put together does not mean the puzzle is defective or that anyone else watching the puzzle go together is equally clueless regarding what picture is being revealed.
It fits even better if you go back and watch both scenes. Saul’s reaction to Lalo telling him that Nacho was the one who let the killers into his house was very similar phrasing, “Nacho? That wasn’t me, I had nothing to do with it!” kind of thing.
Some, come BB era, he’s already got practice with blaming it all on Nacho.
[Moderating]
I’d say that claiming everyone else in the thread is sucking Vince Gilligan’s dick constitutes a personal attack, so this will be a Warning. It’ll also be a thread ban: Do not return to this thread, or there will be further consequences.
Everyone else, please do not engage any further with @Roger_That 's posts in this thread, as he will not be able to respond.
A good episode, with the usual good writing and direction. Maybe I’m spoiled by being able to stream/binge shows, but it seemed like there were an inordinately large number of commercials.
Oh, whoops. Redacted as per moderator instructions.
I was really torn on whether or not to watch episodes as they come out, or save them on the DVR to binge near the end. I think BCS/BB improve when binged, but I can’t wait this close to the end.
never mind
I am thinking about the ending where Mike told Saul and Kim to go about their normal business and gave them a BS story to tell about Howard being high in order cover up his death.
Except Mike has no idea about the scheme the two pulled to make Howard look nuts to force a settlement, right? Is THAT scheme gonna force Mike to take even more measures to cover up Howard’s death?
His conversation with Kim in the diner when she figured out she was being followed led us to believe he had a really good idea of what they were doing.
“I do know that you’ve been up to a few things that you probably would rather keep private. I don’t care.”
OK so Mike knows.
But there still might have some loose threads to cover up with the OTHER people involved in that scheme in order prevent the police from finding out about it and Howard’s subsequent murder
Yeah, it’s certainly not wrapped up in a bow. I think it’ll likely be a big portion of the remaining episodes.
I hope they drop it. I’m way more interested in Kim and Gene.
Yeah, I’m kinda content not knowing more about the Salamanca vs Gus, and Howard loose end stuff. I think it’s plausible to assume there are some loose ends there, but I think knowing what we already know from BB I’m not sure they need to be exposited upon on the show really. We know that by and large Gus ends up winning vs the Salamancas, and while Jimmy goes down, it’s not for this stuff.
But it’s still a long jump from “they schemed to make him crash his case” to “they murdered him.” I doubt the police would investigate his obvious suicide they heavily. And even if they found out about the scheme, it would probably come down to “Oh, they conned him so hard he ruined his reputation that he committed suicide.”
I haven’t finished reading the whole thread, but I have a theory that I haven’t seen put forward yet. Spoilered because I think I’m onto something…
My theory:
Kim is alive and well in the Better Call Saul universe. Gustavo Fring has several very successful businesses. Aside from a couple of business partners in Madrigal, he’s shown running these businesses on his own. Wouldn’t it make sense that he would have a good lawyer, preferably one who’s “In the game…” to help him keep everything separate and on the up and up?
Kim has proven herself to be a formidable lawyer -Howard praised her as one of the top brains he’d ever come across; no small praise considering what they’d just done to him. She’s shown she can talk turkey with Lalo, someone Gus sees as his most formidable adversary, plus Mike sees her as being made of “Stronger Stuff” than Jimmy. Now she’s shown that she’s in the game.
I think after some come-to-Jesus thoughts about what’s just gone down and her role in it, she’s going to come to terms with things. Despite how much she wants to think she’ll be racked with guilt for the rest of her life, she finds she can compartmentalize it. “It never happened”.
She and Jimmy have their Sandpiper payout. They move out of the apartment that reeks of everything that wend down there and into a nice mansion where they gold plate the toilet from Jimmy’s strip-mall office.
Gus approaches Kim about her coming onboard as his personal Consigliere. He finances her non-profit public defender practice and she’s his on-call personal lawyer for above-board deals and under-the-table consigliere on all things “other”.
Eh… I don’t see anyway Kim is connected to the cartel stuff post-BCS. We would’ve seen her in some way in BB. Also, I’m pretty sure Jimmy says in BB he’s never met Gus, he just knows of him through Mike.