Bible verses: 2 Kings 2:23-24; Numbers 5:11-31

I do not see why personal responses would be out of place in this type of thread.

OK, I believe that it happened, that God was behind it, and that it was fair & just. A lot of my reasons have already been stated- that it was not “little children” but “young men”, that they knew this was God’s prophet & Elijah’s successor to whom they were showing contempt, and that the area was known for idolatry and the youths were probably devotees, perhaps even servants at the altars. I’ll add that their call for him to “Go up!” doesn’t just mean “Get out of here!” but “Go up to Heaven like your mentor Elijah did!” and suggest that perhaps Elijah’s presence would have protected them from the bears which were in the area until they drove him out.

http://www.biblicalhorizons.com/biblical-horizons/no-67-suffer-the-little-children/

The only thing I have problems with- you’d think that when the bears attacked the nearest ones, the rest would run off, unless they were totally foolhardy. Same difficulty with the Philistine horde that Samson killed with an ass’s jawbone or the Egyptian army that just saw the Red Sea split for the Israelites & then thought it was a good idea to CHASE AFTER THEM!?!?

Hosea 13, in which God describes His Judging Presence to Apostate Israel. Note verse 8.

4 But I am the Lord your God
from the land of Egypt;
you know no God but me,
and besides me there is no savior.
5 It was I who knew you in the wilderness,
in the land of drought;
6 but when they had grazed,[a] they became full,
they were filled, and their heart was lifted up;
therefore they forgot me.
7 So I am to them like a lion;
like a leopard I will lurk beside the way.
8 I will fall upon them like a bear robbed of her cubs;
I will tear open their breast,
and there I will devour them like a lion,
as a wild beast would rip them open.

Interesting, and Hosea is from ca. 800 BCE. Maybe that’s what the Kings Deuteronomist writer (ca. 560 BCE) was intending to fulfill when he wrote his verses.

And Leviticus 26:22-23:
22 I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. 23 "And if you fail to learn a lesson from this and continue your hostility toward me, 24 then I myself will be hostile toward you, and I will personally strike you seven times over for your sins.

As have you, and often. My post # 73 was basically paraphrasing most of your value judgments you’ve used since this thread was opened.

I find the collective opinion of seventy scholars such in “The Interpreter’s One-Volume Commentary on the Bible” concluding that the particular pericope is a legend, and stating how awful are the consequences that profane what is holy, be it God or a prophet isn’t much different than how those with personal opinions interpreted it, but again, with religious folks still finding a bit more reverence to them, and non-religious folk not having any of that.

No and yes. If a god can’t demonstrate any supernatural powers it’s probably a safe bet to assume there is some kind of fraud going on. I imagine you apply that reasoning to every god but your own, so it can’t be too terrible.

A better comparison would be something including some other mythology. Perhaps Greek. Like if you read the Iliad, would you conclude that Poseidon existed? My guess is no, cause probably your parents didn’t raise you to believe in Poseidon. For Henry the 8th there are other reasons to believe in him besides “The Tudors” but I can’t say I’ve seen the show.

I’d want to know if the story was true that Elisha was a bad ass, or was it a lie. My guess is, it was a lie. So the author was probably trying to present a false reality.

Exaggerating numbers is dishonest. So you think Elisha killed fewer children? That still seems wrong to me.

It also shows how they were cool with the idea of killing “young lads” for teasing a bald man. It shows how you seem pretty cool with the idea too.

If a lad is a young man or boy, what’s a young lad?

Even so, I think it’s wrong to kill grown ups for teasing a man. Does that make me a bad person?

When I google “neurim qetannim” I don’t get anything but Christian apologists sites speaking only of this specific episode.

I remember when Christians used to talk about their morals being “absolute” and considered it a weakness that secularist morals were “relative.” When did relative morality become so popular among Christians? Is the Almighty, and his text book, no longer considered a good source of how to behave now and forever?

Professor, I thought you were one of those liberal Christians who thought many religions were paths to the same god. But now you seem to be endorsing the idea of killing idolators. What gives? Do you really think its OK to kill people of different religions, if not now, in the past?

Captain Amazing, which parts if any of all that do you think really happened?

That seems to be the most rational conclusion.

Yes.

But isn’t it interesting to see to what lengths modern day people will go to in order to make such accommodations?

That’s all good, but I think I have a better idea for next weeks Bible study.

Why do you say that?

Wow!

How do you know they were young men? The best attempts at defining the Hebrew word were ambiguous as best regarding the age? So how can you be sure they were older?

You’ve been listening to that false prophet Jesus, haven’t you!

My personal opinion? Probably none of it. I mean, I guess it’s possible there was a historical Yahwist Israelite prophet named Elijah who had a follower/assistant named Elisha who took his place when Elijah died or disappeared. As far as I know, there’s no verifiable contemporary historical evidence for them (We haven’t found Ahab’s diary with the entry, “Planted roses in my new garden, or as Elijah calls it, my ‘death garden’. Man’s a real buzzkill and I’m starting to feel bad.” or anything like that), but at the same time, I’m willing to accept the possibility of their existence.

I don’t see that that should matter, though, should it? Do I have to believe the events really happened to talk about them? I mean, I don’t think that Huck Finn really helped Jim escape to freedom in Illinois, either, but I talk about that book.

As long as you do not tell others that Huck pretending to have smallpox is something that would fly nowadays*, or avoid telling others to ignore the palpable injustice shown in the book, we are ok. :slight_smile:

  • One interesting bit about smallpox, funny how the pestilences ordered by God do not have smallpox in his toolbox nowadays.