Biden ends "gun show loophole"

Politics & Elections
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https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/11/politics/gun-show-loophole-rule-finalized-biden-admin/index.html

The finalized rule aims to close what gun control advocates call the “gun show loophole” by increasing the requirements to obtain a federal firearms license, or FFL, by more specifically defining what it means to be “engaged in the business” of selling firearms. By making the term more definitive, the Justice Department has said it aims to better regulate the market and encourage higher compliance with the federal background check requirement…The Bipartisan Safer Communities Act, passed in 2022, expanded the definition of engaging in the business of firearms dealing to include all individuals who “devote time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business to predominately earn a profit through the repetitive purchase and sale of firearms.” President Joe Biden later issued an executive order directing DOJ to adopt a new rule to address who is “engaged in the business” of selling firearms.

In finalizing the new rule, DOJ amended the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives regulations to the new expanded definition of engaging in the business of firearms dealing and further clarifies the conduct that presumptively requires a license under that revised definition, the department said.

The rule clarifies what it means to have a “personal firearms collection” to ensure that “genuine hobbyists and collectors” may add to or get rid of guns in their collection without breaking the law, and provides clarity as to what FFL’s who are going out of business should do with their inventory.
“Under this regulation, it will not matter if guns are sold on the internet, at a gun show, or at a brick-and-mortar store: if you sell guns predominantly to earn a profit, you must be licensed, and you must conduct background checks,” Attorney General Merrick Garland said in a statement.

As I have mentioned before the dudes I call "strawman dealers’ are the primary source for criminals buying guns. These are the assholes who but a dozen 9Mm when on sale, load them in their trunk cross state lines and sell them to gangbangers- cash only, at a large mark up.

This will not stop the hobbiest who collects WW1 antique guns from trading or selling some 100 year old item, or the widow from selling her dead husbands guns.

But this stop the criminals who buy lots and lots of guns for the purpose of reselling them- mostly to criminals- with no ID checked of course.

This is a solid move forward.

and of course-“This latest Biden Administration attack on law-abiding gun owners is a blatant attempt to coerce Americans to forego legal activity with firearms under threat of potential confiscation of their lawfully acquired and constitutionally protected property,” said Randy Kozuch, the executive director of the NRA Institute for Legislative Action, in a statement. “NRA is already working to use all means available to stop this unlawful rule.” which is a total and complete lie, since it does nothing of the sort. Gun owners can keep their guns. Only those who make a living buying and selling guns are covered by this new ruling. In most cases- those who make a living selling guns to criminals, I might add.

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That is a bunch of subjective opinion, there.

Not everyone buying guns at shows are criminals. Not all sellers are selling to criminals.

I agree criminals get guns in unlawful ways. Theft, buying from like minded criminals.
Some surely go to gun shows. They wouldn’t get dozens. If they do not have a good cover and fake identity it could be bad for them.

I’m very happy Biden has done this. I hope he makes it some kinda licensing requirements for sellers. And buyers.

It’s obvious to me the background requirements are easy to get around in all places selling guns.

Fighting guns on the street needs a top-down look. Why exactly are manufacture companies allowed to make so many? Why are foreign made guns coming here?

And, Adults. Please do not buy guns for or leave your guns where children can get to them.
Lock your guns up from theft. Do not leave them in cars. If you’re in need of being armed keep that gun on your person.

Just my thoughts on this.

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Indeed, I said many werent. But those strawman dealers who buy a dozen 9mm and resell them in another state are finally now- criminals.

Yes. If you have kids in the house, all guns must be in a safe. Even if you dont have kids, store as many guns as possible in a secure safe. Okay, if you feel you need to leave one gun in your nightstand, fine, as long as you dont have kids. But lock the rest up, please!

Yes, the so called “Gunshow loophole” is badly named. The crooked strawman dealers do not sell at gun shows. They sell directly out of the back of their vans to criminals. Gunshows require those who have tables to have an FFL.

Sure, we will still get the odd collector selling a single gun while walking around at a show or in the parking lot- that isn’t what this law is about. It is to stop those who make a living buying and selling guns from doing that without a FFL. (Federal Firearms License- which requires background checks on all guns sold). Of course most of the strawman dealers cant get a FFL

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Then this is much ado about nothing.

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While I agree its a good intentioned change and it will help to close the loophole - I must disagree with this statement - it will do nothing to stop ‘criminals’ - it may somehow slow them down a bit - but it will never ‘stop’ this element.

Criminals, by definition, do not give a rats ass as to what the rules/law state.

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Oh no, those strawman dealers are the primary source of guns sold to criminals.

Maybe, but before they were selling in a grey area. Now strawman dealing is against the law. They can be arrested and put in prison.

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True. But, the more difficult it is to obtain an illegal firearm the more expensive an illegal firearm becomes. You will start working from the bottom up. Wealthy criminals will always find a way to get one but maybe Joe Street Criminal won’t be able to afford one.

IIRC this happened in Australia when they banned firearms. Criminals can still get them but now they are very expensive.

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Yes, and the criminal seller has to act much more cautiously.

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The National Russia Association hasn’t been completely disbanded yet?

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As much as I appreciate Biden, this isn’t the be all answer by far.

Non-criminal sellers may get dangerously careless to get rid of stock.
Fire-sale for the bad guys.

Scary times coming…gun collectors gonna get antsy. The average redneck hunter gonna be more apt to go Trump more than they already do.

Like I said I’m happy for someone doing something. I’m fearful.

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I don’t think that anyone believes that it would be. But, as @DrDeth notes, it should put a serious crimp in the “strawman dealer” business, which likely caters primarily to criminals. It’ll probably never be possible to keep guns out of the hands of determined criminals, but that doesn’t mean it’s not worthwhile to take steps to make it more difficult for them.

I would wager that very few of them had any liking for Biden before today, anyway.

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My redneck hunters are mouthing off about it.
But they will vote Democrat or they won’t like what happens. I promise. :smirk:

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Have any of them (which I presume are law abiding citizens and not criminals) said how this would negatively impact them?

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They’re not sure. Just mouthing.

Gun news always bugs em for a day or two.
Mr Wrek did say only thing he ever bought at a show, in any amount was ammo. Before the limits started.

He wondered if he broke the law. They only asked for his I.D… He’s was obviously old enough. But they put his name in a book as he was buying more that 2 boxes, they said.

He won’t be buying anymore guns in his lifetime. He’s got too many now. 2 safe fulls are plenty.

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Nope, it isn’t. But there is only so much you can do with Executive powers.

It is a good start, along with the bipartisan Gun control bill he got passed.

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So, how long before the Supreme Court rules 6-3 that the existence of the DOJ is unconstitutional because arresting criminals infringes on their Biblically-guaranteed (it’s somewhere in the back, trust me folks) right to own as many guns as they want according to the broadest possible interpretation of the only amendment that is completely and totally immutable, as opposed to those like, say, Section 3 of the 14th amendment which are completely optional?

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You’d think this would be common sense. Sadly, no. I said something once about how most people in Wyoming are good about locking up their guns, and this student’s father snorted and said, “My three-year-old knows not to touch guns. You don’t need a gun safe if you raise your kids right.”

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News Alert : 3 yo grows up to age 15–shoots the whole household because he remembered the gun was a fun toy Dad kept on the coffee table.

Aaaaacccckkk!

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Which is why the passage of criminal laws doesn’t really matter one way or another.

To evaluate this hypothesis, it’s best to go where criminals frequent - gun shows. Look at the border between states that have tough gun show regulations and loose ones. One of them is in Reno, Nevada: more than 30% of the cars in the parking lot have California plates according to Wintemute (2007). This hardened criminal clientele presumably hoped to dodge comprehensive background check policies in the Golden State.

California gun shows exist. But once you have tough background check requirements, private party transactions disappear in practice: buyers and sellers prefer to mediate their transactions through a licensed dealer. Not so in Arizona, Florida, Nevada and Texas - there private party transactions occur all the time at these dens of criminality. Straw man purchases of firearms are illegal nationwide, but they are estimated to be 6 times as prevalent in the preceding comparison states than they are in California. Wintemute (2013).

The varying behavior at California and Nevada gun shows suggests to me that laws do matter, and that criminals respond to them, flocking to jurisdictions where they more easily flout the law. Closing the gun show loophole is a great victory for law abiding citizens.

Regards,

MfM
Adam West Institute for the Study of the Criminal Mind

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When I passed the Hunter safety and got my Merit badge, my dad bought me a single shot bolt action target .22 rifle. Of course he kept it until I was an adult. This is one of the two guns I still own.

Not really. The straw man dealers go where the criminals go.

The existence of CA plates just means tourists or people moving from CA to Nevada.

Here, I agree.

But the NRA opposing this just shows much far the NRA has gone from its original idea of helping hunters and target shooters.

This never regulation only effects people who are unlicensed dealers. It will not effect target shooters, hunters, people who keep a gun for home protection, cowboy action shooters, or even collectors.

It only effects unlicensed dealers. The NRA here is totally wrong.

But please everyone- keep this thread on target- Bidens new Regulation effecting unlicensed gun dealers.

This is not yet another pointless gun control debate.