After a season and a half, Teenie is finally back from camp
That was a weird, awkward scene, wasn’t it?
I am going to have to re-watch it at 8, my partner, after spending all day on the computer playing Eve with his headphones on, suddenly decided to become chatty and then fed our 7 dogs early which means for most of casino sensitivity seminar, I couldn’t hear anything because of the deafening sound of 7 metal bowls and dog kibble.
So… the other thing I did was look away too fast… who kissed who? Margie or Ben?
This is a season of stupidity. Bill as a politician= extremely dumb. Barb every time she opens her mouth= moronic. Sarah’s new BFF, the meth head also seems like reaching for a story to me. The only story line that interests me this season is the Nikki/JJ/Wanda dynamic.
The reappearance of Roman was a highlight of the episode, and Nikki bringing a handgun to a Washington fundraiser, that was a special brand of stupidity that was actually funny.
And Joey…wow. What a colossel cluster that situation is…
I’d been a bit iffy the first two episodes this season, but everything clicked for me this episode. I thought it was one of the best of the whole show. Every single plotline was entertaining:
-JJ (who’s he going to kidnap? maybe Joey and Wanda’s kid?)
-Gay Alby (I can still taste you on my lips)
-Nicky and her daughter (that caricature was just classic)
-Ben and Margene (particularly showing up on camera at the end)
Just plain entertaining all around.
My thoughts:
I want to fuck Sissy Spacek’s head off! I don’t know what it is about sharp-faced older women with light skin and hair but they really turn me on.
I watched this episode and the one before it together on HBO On Demand, since I was away from home last Sunday and so did not get a chance to watch the second episode. For some reason, it seems like the camera work for this season has a low-budget feel to it. I really don’t know why this is, but I felt like I was watching a show on Community Access TV because of the candid sort of camera angles and lighting they used. I actually liked this.
It was nice to see Roman Grant make an appearance, although what he said was so predictable! I wished he had been cheering on Alby: “That’s it, son! Stick it in him!”
Sissy Spacek may be old but she has a lot of sex appeal.
Sarah’s now-husband Scott looked good, dressed in a suit with a haircut. Before, he looked like a huge dork. But this time, I recognized him from Last House on the Left. Speaking of that movie, Garret Dillahunt should be in Big Love. I see him, perhaps, playing a geologist who was sent by a big oil company to look for oil on the Indian reservation where the casino is located.
Speaking of Indians, I am hoping that this methamphetamine addict and drug smuggler who has been befriended by Sarah does not turn out to be some kind of bullshit, fairy tale storyline. I hope she does a real number on the family and takes them for everything they’ve got - because in real life, that’s what happens when you let hustlers take advantage of your generosity.
What on earth does Margene see in Ben? He’s a big gangling doofus who has zero presence or personality. Or does she see anything in him at all? Maybe it’s just a totally unrequited crush that Ben has on her. What does anyone see in Ben? He’s a creep!
I take it this show doesn’t have a whole lot of fans here…
I think he’s the only one who isn’t dismissive of Margie and her passions. The other two wives and Bill sort of pat her on the head and expect nothing of her- hence their surprise she was making real money.
So, here you have a lonely girl who feels like no one respects her ideas or values her contributions. Then you have someone that actually IS nice to her, listens to her, and is there for her. And they aren’t that far off in age. It makes sense.
Plus, I think she’s attracted to his attraction to her, which is pretty strong. I guess this is why they boot all the young guys off the compound…
I liked the ambiguity of Alby in bed with the Reformer, or whatever he is. I could equally buy that he was taking the photo because he wanted to remember the moment as I could that he was taking it for future blackmail purposes.
One encounter with Nicki is all it takes to change a hardboiled Washington insider’s mind? Not buying it. And the gun thing was stupid.
I didn’t mind the gun thing with Nikki, because it seemed in character. It did seem to be weird that she would call the girls wearing shorts in the station “whores”, then dress Carolinn in shorts as well. Why couldn’t she have put the girl in a collared shirt and jeans, it was pretty dumb to dress her that way.
The main reason Margene has joined the Hendricksons was to feel wanted and part of a family, I remember last season? she mentioned how much nicer it was when they all lived together. Now, they’ve forced her to be more independent and she will not be wanting to give that up or share it, I bet.
Not a bad ep, other than Spacek chewing the scenery. But it’s turning into more of a soap opera, which is just boring to me.
As soon as Nicki took out that gun to show it to Caralyn, I knew it was going to come back in some madcap way. It’s pretty in character for her - she’s a hapless rube. “It’s not loaded!” I always despised Nikki and could never understand why Bill kept her around, other than that he’s close to the sons he had with her. She has been nothing but a giant liability for the family and if I were Bill, there’s no way I would put up with it. She’s bossy, passive-aggressive, nagging, cold, hateful, uneducated and ignorant, has horrible judgment, is a betrayer and backstabber, and brings a trail of disaster everywhere she goes. I also never thought Chloe Sevigny was attractive and do not understand her appeal. Her best role was in The Brown Bunny. (Oh, how I would love for Prince Vince to make a cameo on Big Love!)
I don’t understand the best supporting actress award for her either.
I disagree about Chloe Sevigny, at least in this show. She is by far the most complex character and I think she pulls it off perfectly.
Agreed. I was going to say it was a very obvious twist but I don’t know if it even counts as a twist.
She’s the only one of his wives who believes in polygamy and understands that side of his faith. Barb doesn’t buy into any of that principle stuff, though she is trying desperately to rationalize it, and Margene doesn’t care about it because she just likes Bill and wants to be accepted. Nicki shares his upbringing at Juniper Creek and cares about their core values. And possibly their marriage was connected to a business arrangement between Bill and Roman, although I’m not totally sold on that idea.
This one didn’t really come together for me. I enjoyed seeing how hopelessly overmatched Bill was in DC, but I didn’t buy the way they resolved it at all. And HBO has already covered this ground of talking dead people - in fact they’ve even done dead fathers talking to gay sons. Big Love should steer clear of inviting comparisons to Six Feet Under.
That’s what I told my husband – why couldn’t Nikki have bought her daughter some more “mainstream” clothing that was still modest? Heck, ***I ***wouldn’t even be confortable in a sleeveless top & shorts, and I grew up in California. Nikki dresses conservatively but still “fits in.” She of all people should understand the “fitting in” part.
Anyone who’s heard of Chekhov’s gun knows that the gun would play a role later. I actually thought it would become an issue when Cara Lynn said that she wanted to go to the White House. (Surely they wouldn’t be stupid enough to try to bring it into the building?) And the sexism was hilarious. Even Bill, who seems superficially more enlightened than some of the other characters, just assumed that Sissy Spacek’s character was a secretary or receptionist. And then there was J.J., who insisted on speaking with a man.
I was just about to post that I really didn’t have much in the way of doctrine-related commentary, but upon reading the thread, I realize that I do have some comments.
This week’s Dogzilla Spin involves the teachings in regard to modesty. Reloy3 may or may not agree; it would be nice to read his perspective on these comments either way.
In Young Women’s (the youth group for girls ages 12-18), we were constantly hammered at on two things:
• modesty, modesty, modesty – and anything less than the mormon standard of modesty is considered walking pornography; and
• sex is bad, and dirty, and dangerous, so you should save it for your husband.
Nikki calling relatively modestly dressed nonmormons “whores!” (an LOL moment for me) was not a surprise. Dressing her daughter in shorts was, given Nikki’s propensity to follow FLDS modesty standards, pretty much faithfully. She doesn’t wear prairie dresses, but comes pretty close – always in long skirts and long sleeves. You rarely see her in pants – she did wear some pants suits when she was working, I noticed.
Nikki did make a comment about “You want to dress in a way that’s pleasing to your husband.” In other words, show some of your goods or you will never attract a man. Yikes. Talk about conflicting messages. No wonder Cara Lynn is a train wreck.
No, what bothers me, really, is the way Margene dresses. Margene never was and is still not a mormon. She hasn’t had that mormon dress-code programming drilled into her like Barb and Nikki (and all the other mormon and FLDS women on this show) have. Yet, way back a couple seasons ago, when Bill was baptizing Teeny, Margene jumped into the family swimming pool because she wanted to be baptized into the family as well.
Let me stop right there with a hruh? WTF? Baptized into a family? Not computing. Baptism as an ordnance, is a two-way agreement. The baptizee, so to speak, takes covenants and agrees to live by the laws of god and obey the commandments. There is a commitment that is made! In return, god promises salvation. You agree to abide by the rules, you get to go to heaven (basically, although mormonism is a “salvation by works” religion and not a “salvation by grace” religion – you have to do more than just accept Jesus as your savior and rely on the grace of god for your salvation).
What rules did Margene agree to when she had herself “baptized”? What promises did the Henrickson family make to her in return? There were none. The act itself of Margene getting baptized in the swimming pool has never made sense to me and has never been explained in context or directly. I can’t figure out if they actually have a religion/church or if I’m supposed to infer that their little plyg family is their religion.
Again, back a couple seasons ago, Margene had occasion to go to the compound with Nikki. Nikki agreed to take her along, “But you’re going to have to put some clothes on.” IIRC, Margene was wearing a modest t-shirt and a modest denim mini skirt. (Mini skirts are sort of frowned upon by mainstream church standards, but would be completely forbidden in FLDS standards.) Margene changed clothes to go to the compound.
So why is it, when Barb and Nikki are trying to raise all their children with at least mainstream mormon modesty standards (just slightly less strict than the FLDS standards), would they not be putting the pressure on Margene to at least cover it up a bit to set a positive example? Mormons are all about leading by example; hell, that’s where I learned to do it. I cannot believe that nobody has said word one to Margene about the way she dresses, especially with Barb’s control-freak tendencies.
If we were talking about a real, live family here, I’d say the next thing to happen is that Sarah’s choice to get knocked up and get married (in that order) will be blamed on Margene for setting such a poor example. Of course poor Sarah was confused about modesty and the standards of conduct – look how Margene flaunts her boobs! She’s walking pron!
Anyway, that was the main thing that had been bugging me. A lot of exmormons and postmormons still have experiences with their TBM (True, Believing Mormon) family members attempting to exert influence or control over their now-apostate family members. Adult children are told how to behave. Not all families do this. Not everyone has that experience. (I don’t – my parents do not attempt in any way to try to make me act like I’m still a mormon, not even in their presence. My dad has actually enabled my smoking!) But some people will try to control the behavior of others by placing social pressure and using guilt and shame. I’m just surprised that Barb and Nikki haven’t tried this on Margene. I suppose they have bigger fish to fry. However, with the Ben kiss thing, I wouldn’t be surprised if her manner of dress comes back to slap her in the face, i.e., she tempted him by wearing that deep v neckline dress. FTR, she did kiss him, but he didn’t exactly push her off him, did he? (And, my oh my, is that actor growing up to be quite the little hottie?)
The other comments I wanted to make were in regard to patriarchy in general. We saw at least two really good examples of mormon – specifically FLDS men – treating women as if they don’t count.
• When JJ home invaded Margene’s looking for Cara Lynn. I was seriously, seriously worried about Margene. There she was, with all the clan’s babies in her charge, and this crazy whackjob busts into the house. I thought he would beat the crap out of her at least. “LET ME TALK TO A MAN!” Only Ben was able to back his ass down and get him out of the house. (Nikki being oblivious to the danger that her sister wife, stepchildren and sons were in, filled me with grr.) JJ wasn’t going anywhere even after Margene clearly and directly told him to get out. He would only listen to Ben, who is a penis-holder.
And then, of course, Bill’s little faux pas with Sissy Spacek. The minute he said, “Excuse me, Miss?” I know exactly how that was going to play out. I was chuckling through that entire scene because it is a bit of a stereotype that mormon men behave that way. But look at it from Bill’s perspective for a second: he grew up in a culture where women are traded like cattle, as property, and are the work horses of the compounds. He has never encountered women in leadership positions within the compound and not even really in the mainstream mormon church.
Mainstream mormon women can hold no higher (meaning leadership) calling than Relief Society president and even then, all decisions defer to the male bishop. Women cannot be bishops, cannot preside over meetings, and their decisions or the needs of their organization can be undermined with no reasons at all given.
Again, my usual disclaimer: Not all mormon men are like this. Surely, the FLDS are a little more patriarchal and patronizing than the mainstream mormons because at least mainstream mormons get to encounter women in strong leadership positions outside the church. If a woman wants to get her PhD, or become a doctor, or run for the school board or state senate or something, there will be social pressure to stay at home and make babies instead, but she wouldn’t be shunned our ousted from the church for choosing a career (with or without the family). Social pressure is not the same thing as doctrine coerced. Anyway, my point was that I have met some mormon men who did not treat me like a cute little puppy, but many did. Also, my father was a bit of an exception to this, although he has his patronizing moments. And by no means, and in no way, does mormonism have any corner on the misogyny market. Plenty of cultures other than are much, much, much more oppressive to women. Islam, I’m looking at you.
My notes are at home, so as I review them tonight, if I have anything else to add… [Swarzenegger voice]I’ll be back. [/Swarzenegger voice]
P.S. I’ve been spelling “ordnance” incorrectly. That’s the term for like ammo. Future postings will refer to rites and rituals as “ordinances.” Ooops.
I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.
I do believe in one early episode, Margene mentions that the baby doll type pjs she is wearing were ones she didn’t think she had because she had to throw them all out. So I think there was a conversation at one point (and same episode, I think Barb told Margene to go put more clothes on). But it is a good question as to why she still dresses that way, although I’m sure the pressure that the HSN type lady is putting oner has something to do with her wardrobe on tv.
And Nikki, does have a slight out on this one. Carolinn told her that JJ said it was ok, which gave Nikki a nice opportunity to give a hypocritical “don’t lie” speech ;). She had to have known though that JJ wouldn’t have been easy to convince to let his daughter go across the country, so she should have verified it with him, obviously.
The other thing I was going to mention that bothered me a bit- was Bill a little overly “fatherly” to Carolinn, kissing her on the head (I think) and such. It seemed like in one scene she even pulled away from that a bit. It just seemed a little odd manner towards the teenage daughter of your wife that you just met a few weeks before.
JJ is not an intimidating villain, to me. Sorry, Zeljko Ivanek - you were great as the evil French teacher in School Ties, though. But that role involved a snide, aristocratic snobbery - this JJ character is simply an eccentric creep, but not an interesting villain. I was struck, though, by the way they have his wife be wheelchair-bound, suffering from cancer and dependent upon medical procedures (which they are always talking about.) I found this slightly Ballardian. They have cast her medical condition and her husband’s attention to it in a perverse, awkward way.
The only problem with Alby’s storyline is that I cannot for a minute picture anyone – gay, straight, bi – ever remotely considering boffing Alby.