manhattan you are wrong. this is a place we all share our ideas, i dont go onto the street to people walking to the subway and tell em how i hate gays and such. also i said “they might go to hell”, i have no say or belief on that point. and stop making fun of my grammar, i can make it better, but i wont (i dont use the delete key, it broke off)
whats a keyboard?
Damn right on all counts and all points, Manhattan.
Bigots are weaklings and bullies who choose to hate BECAUSE THEY ENJOY IT.
They deserve every bit of contempt and anger going. The bigots who wrap their evil in religion–any religion–are damned by their own standards. Since I come from a predominantly Christian background, the extremist “bigots for God” disgust me the most, because I have the most complete context in which to place them.
They’re shits, complete and total shits.
Hate is wrong, period and full stop. The Bible is quite clear on the prohibition against judging others. In the basis of their own loudly proclaimed faith, the bigots are not only trespassing against their fellow beings, they are usurping the authority of the God they claim to love and serve.They flagrantly pervert the very standards they claim to uphold.
Apologies for the rant, but this ignites my rarely triggered anger. For whatever it’s worth, I recently read a wonderful article by a faithful Muslim, defending the REALITY of his faith against the perceptions it has accumulated. (Complete this phrase: Islamic ____. Probably “extremist” or “terrorist”, right?)
Well, any good can be perverted into evil by evil people. And yes, I do believe that bigots are evil. Evil exists and bigots choose to serve it, no matter the rationalization they employ. And they deserve every bit of contempt and shunning decent people can invoke.
Grrrrrrr.
Thanks for the advice, Hitler.
What pisses me off are those damned anti-bigots. They are so hypocritical, they are bigoted against bigots. So basically they hate themselves. You know who you are.
So what if I choose to have prejudiced beliefs about groups of people based on stereotypes? Do I not have the right to do this? If someone suggests killing all the blacks/jews/gays there’s a big fuss, but when someone says let’s kill all the bigots people cheer them on, and don’t even realize the hypocricy.
And don’t give me this crap about “you choose to be bigoted”. You can choose to be muslim too, but being anti-muslim is not PC.
How can someone feel self-righteous saying “I hate bigots”? Wow, it must take some real bravery to do that. Why not just stand on the street yelling “Status Quo! Status Quo!”.
I hope you people have understood what I’m trying to say. Actually I don’t care if didn’t. This is the BBQ Pit, so flame away ya ass-bandits!
I was born and raised in Minnesota–The Land of Left of Liberal. My relatives, on the other hand, live in Alabama and are still fighting the Civil War.
The last time I was in New York, there was a big gay parade alongside Central Park. I watched for a while, and then the Dykes on Bikes group came by, on foot, blowing whistles, and yelling “Come on out!” One of them beckoned to me, and what the hell, I joined her.
My friend took a picture of me walking arm-in-arm down Central Park West with the biggest, meanest butch dyke you’ve ever seen.
I should send a copy to Birmingham.
I was going to add here what my sexual orientation is, but it doesn’t matter.
Good move, Konrad.
Really original.
Poor, put-upon bigots, another “victim” group that wants to stomp on other people’s rights with no cause but still piously retain respect.
It’s really hard to put simple concepts into language even you could understand. Let’s see if I can translate this into broad outlines even you can understand:
You have opinions.
Boom rah-rah.
Everyone does.
Those opinions don’t have to be based on anything.
Your opinions can be based only on hate and unreason.
Those opinoins reflect on ONLY on you.
Other people don"t have to agree with your opinions.
If you try to force your opinions on other people, they can disagree.
If you try to impose your opinions onto others lives, they can consider you an unreasoning, arrogant, marginal sociopath.
They will hate your guts.
Now, is there some part of this that has exceeded your too-obvious limited rational abilities?
Sigh. Let me translate into terms even you may (possibly) understand: you punch people, expect to be punched back.
Cordially, your enemy,
Veb
TVeb: Man, you missed the point entirely.
Konrad manages to look up from his navel lint long enough to spew:
This may be the most incoherent statement ever converted to ones and zeroes, but it does contain a kernel of truth. Yes, I am bigoted against bigots. But no, I do not hate myself. I hate you. All clear?
Yes, you do, in this country, have the right to be a bigoted Neanderthal jerk. You do not have the right to do anything about it. As the first, oh, 20 or so posts should have made clear, it’s no skin off my back if you want to sit around with your sister and wife and say to her, “Honey, ya know, I really don’t cotton to them thar homosexuals.” Come out of the house and say it, and I hate you. Come to my neighborhood and say it, and I’ll hate you to your face
Here’s some more “crap” for you. If you choose to be a bigot, I hate you. If a follower of Islam chooses a bigot, I hate him too. Like many religions, Islam proscribes homosexuality. So Muslims do not engage in homosexual activity. They do not march around in front of gay bars condemning non-followers to death.
I take it back. Your first statement was not the most incoherent statement ever converted to ones and zeroes.
Ass-bandits? I understood all too well, breeder-boy. Enough to know that I hate you. Stay out of my neighborhood. And out of everyone else’s neighborhood, too. Now return to your belly-button lint.
Livin’ on Tums, Vitamin E and Rogaine
I have to say, I agree with matt_mcl about Phelps. Let him stand on the street corners of America, spewing his vile excrement. Let him run for Congress, if he wants. It will be the best thing that ever happened to the gay-rights movement, I guarantee it. Freedom of speech. Ain’t it great?
P.S. Fuck you, Fred Phelps. I can exercise my freedom of speech, too. Probably better than Mr. Phelps can.
Manhattan: Thanks for proving my point. You are the perfect example of what I was saying. You condemn your very own actions, and with such ferocity too.
You condemn bigotry because it is based on unthinking hatred, ignorance and steretyping instead of reason. Well that is the exact same thing you are doing.
See, I am bigoted against people who have strong opinions about things they know nothing about. But do try to understand me or reason with me? No, you hate me based on ignorance and stereotyping. “All those bigots are the same”.
You said: “They do not march around in front of gay bars condemning non-followers to death.”
Did I even say I go out on marches or anything like that? No, your hatred is based on the same unreasoning aggression as any other bigotry.
I don’t even how you can care so much about this. You seem to be really angry that someone is disagreeing with you. You really have to show what an upstanding citizen you are by going all out against bigotry. Gimmie a break. Hypocritical.
Oooh-kaayyy,
Translation time…
Konrad: you’re a fool, which is not uncommon, but you are also pedantic, weak, pettifogging, vicious misguided fool.
Now try to keep up…
There’s hate based on weakness, insecuity and fear.
It’s a cheap shot.
It’s based on weaknesses and human frailty projected onto others.
Look up “scapegoat”, for starters.
Then there is the richly earned, human, civil and moral CONTEMPT decent people heap on predacious persons who gladly, of their own free will, prey on people who aren’t exactly like themselves.
If your’re still with me–which I doubt–then do try to make a distinction b/w hate based on ignorance and fear, and, yes, hate based on cheap choices made for evil, cowardly reasons.
Choose to be a bigot?
Dead meat, chump.
You bet I hate your ass.
Now why is it again I should respect, tolerate or suffer bigots?
Your behavior…live w/ the consequences.
And yeah, I got the point.
You’re a sociopath. Go whine somewhere else, junior.
Still your enemy, and proud of it,
Veb
You’re very right. And your hate of me is based on ingorance and fear. You hate me without even knowing what I am bigoted against. That is ignorance.
Let’s see if I can make this any clearer to you. We’ll take your words and use them as any other bigot, like yourself, would:
Hmm… Does that sound like a contempt based on logic and reason? Nope, just like any other bigotry.
Like I said, I’m bigoted against people who have strong opinions on things they know nothing about. Of course, you mistook me as some sort of hick white supremacist because your opinion of me is based on stereotypes. So you hate me for the same reason any bigot hates others.
You are bigoted against bigots. Therefore you are a hypocrite.
Konrad. Yes, I’m a hypocrite. I’m a bigot and I dislike bigotry. I’m highly prejudiced against gay-bashers, for example, and I really groove on people who share that belief.
I realize I shouldn’t think less of folks who hate gays (or Asians, or Muslims, or whatever), but it’s just so much fun!
If you choose to hate someone you don’t know, go for it. If you tell me fags are going to hell, I’ll let you say it. I’ll respect it.
But I’ll still think you’re the lowest form of flaggelate ever to course the recesses of a titmouse’s colon. It’ll be nothing personal.
-andros-
“Listen Children Eternal Father Eternally One!” Exceptions? None!
-Doc Bronner
Konrad, am I understanding you? You seem to be saying that to hate hatemongers is as wrong as being a hatemonger yourself; are you saying we (speaking generically of all human society) have no choice to accept bigotry without opposition?
Or are you saying that do so is like the fundamentalists who insist “we hate the sin {of homosexuality}, but not the sinner. So, when we oppose laws to make beating someone to death for no other reason than their sexual orientation, it’s not because we hate gays, we just hate being gay”?
DIF: That’s not what I’m saying at all. I was saying that a person who hates… ok well, let me give an example. That will be be simpler.
Let’s say person A is raised in early America as a slave owner and is taught that all black people are subhuman criminals. “A”'s hate of black people is not based on logic but simple on ingrained beliefs.
Let’s say person B is raised in modern America and is taught that all bigots are subhuman criminals. “B”'s hate of bigots is not based on logic but on simple ingrained beliefs.
What’s the difference between person A & B? To me there is none. Both hold their beliefs only because they want to conform to the ideas common at the time.
It’s one thing to say I don’t like this one particular person because he is a bigot. His beliefs are based on this and this, and this is clearly illogical. But to make this huge blanket statement is ridiculous.
How can anyone have such a strong, aggressive, fiery hate of a group of people, such as manhattan has against bigots? Only through ignorance. Did you see how aggressive some of the posts adressed to me were? How can you hate someone that much without knowing them at all? Only through ignorance and stereotyping.
One of my best friends in high school would sometimes tell me “We should send all the faggots to an island and nuke it”. Just because I don’t agree with some of his beliefs doesn’t mean I have to regard him as some sort of animal. He’s a bigot and I like him. To charactarize one group of people in such a way means that you most be completely ignorant. Because once you meet one person from a group you like you can no longer say all people from that group are, without exception, loathsome.
So, in short, what I’m saying is that it pisses me off when people complain about bigotry/racism/whatever when they’re no better than the people they’re complaining about. They’re using the same arguments against bigots as the bigots are using against whatever group they don’t like. Under different circumstances it would be those same people having those beliefs.
Actually there might be a difference. Those marchers manhattan wrote about at least had the courage to say something that was unpopular. They may have been using illogical arguments, but that’s only stupid. Using illogical arguments to support an accepted idea is stupid and pointless.
That’s why you don’t see people marching on the streets with signs saying “Status quo!”.
DIF: I just realized I didn’t really answer your question.
Yes, of course you can oppose views you disagree with. Just oppose them for the right reasons.
And yours are the right reasons, of course.
-andros-
A while ago, one Methodist church in San Francisco held a wedding for one (or was it two?) gay couples. About 200 Methodists from other areas planned to hold a protest demonstration out in front of the San Francisco Methodist church.
BUT,
When the Methodists who planned the protest discovered that Fred Phelps’ group was also going to be there protesting the weddings, they backed out! The anti-gay Methodists didn’t want to be associated with Phelps’ vile group. The San Francisco church ended up with a FAR SMALLER protest going on out in front of it than it would have had, if Phelps’ group had not shown up.
So … in a way, we should be thanking Jim Phelps for inadvertently increasing the social tolerance of gays. 
The truth, as always, is more complicated than that.
Konrad,
You’re either playing some pedantic little game here, or you actually believe what you say.
If the former is the case, you’re a moron.
If the latter, you’re a menace.
Not to inject levity into a rant thread of my own making, but I love Jim Phelps. I hope Fred Phelps self-destructs in five seconds.
Livin’ on Tums, Vitamin E and Rogaine