You know, Manhattan, folks from outside of Kansas might have a little bit better luck convincing folks inside Kansas of their points of view if they avoided using terms like “backward” and “science-challenged” to refer to everyone in the state. I no longer live there, and I am certainly disgusted by Fred Phelps (and I’ve been disgusted by him for a lot longer than you have, because ol’ Fred has been in business in Kansas for many years, long before you ever heard of him). But you have to figure that there are at least a few of us native Kansans who strongly oppose Phelps’s attacks on gays. In fact, I’d bet a good solid 95% of Kansas folks are sickened by Phelps and his so-called church, which is entirely made up of his family members. Don’t bash Kansans. Bash Phelps.
By the way, as far as we’re concerned, Manhattan is a town west of Topeka. It’s east of Junction City, not far off I-70.
Lawrence: I missed your post while I was away. Sorry.
Your point is well taken. Between the particular “backward” and “science-challenged” folks who invaded my neighborhood, and the equally “backward” and “science-challenged” people who somehow ended up on the School Board there, I got so mad that my angry rhetoric improperly tarred an entire state’s population for the actions of a few. I apologize for that, and I thank you for pointing it out. Consider me chastized and chastened. (Some flame, huh?)
And I’ve been to the other Manhattan. Hell of a steer they cook up there. What was the name of the big steakhouse there? It was about 15 years ago, and I’ve forgotten.
When the Methodists who planned the protest discovered that Fred Phelps’ group was also going to be there protesting the weddings, they backed out! The anti-gay Methodists didn’t want to be associated with Phelps’ vile group. The San Francisco church ended up with a FAR SMALLER protest going on out in front of it than it would have had, if Phelps’ group had not shown up.
I don’t get it. A bunch of blatant homophobes back out on a protest to avoid being associated with one of their own kind? True, Phelps is more vocal about it than the average bigot, but unless he is evil for reasons other than homophobia, they aren’t much less evil than he is.
Yes, of course you can oppose views you disagree with. Just oppose them for the right reasons.
It seems to me that all the bigot-bashing on this trhead was for the right reasons.
Konrad, just what do you know about bigots that we don’t?
RoboDude: I think you might have erred when you referred to the protesting Methodists as “blatant homophobes.” Most, if not all, of them may very well be; however, the one valid point they had is the Methodist Church proscribes gay marriages and therefore the minister (priest? clergyperson?) was in violation of the church’s own rules. As my dad says, “if they want a church with different rules, start their own church!”
Fred Phelps on the other hand is definitely a blatant homophobe. Apparently the concept of “christian act” is completely foreign to him.
Konrad, I see your point but can’t agree. It’s just a logic game to you. Real life isn’t quite so reasonable. Your attitude is guaranteed to do a back flip if and when you ever run out of luck, find yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time, and end up on the receiving end of 10 pairs of waffle stompers just because you happen to be different than the crowd.
The problem with loud mouthed bigots is that they tend to draw a crowd of idiots. Too many idiots in one place is never a good thing.
There are just some people in the world who desperately deserve to have the living shit choked out of them. It’s not their lifestyle, it’s not the color of the skin or hair, it’s not the religion. It’s the weak, stupid, backstabbing, lickspittle, hatemongering things they say and do. I’m with Manhatten, all fag bashers, neo-Nazis, knee jerk fundamentalist freaks, and other assorted hate mongers can line up out the door and kiss my ass til I have chapped buns.
Don’t like that? I’m gonna sing it loud and clear and in your face. Bring it on.
On a related note, my uncle was a tank driver in WWII. All he has to say about the neo-Nazis is that all of them together wouldn’t make a pimple on an SS man’s ass.
Yes, violence is usually the fastest way to change someone’s opinions. However, that doesn’t prove much about the validity of the opinions.
But you don’t like bigots singing things loud and clear?
That might nice and all but I’m not trying to defend neo-nazis. I’m just saying a blind hatred of any group is illogical, whether they are bigots or not.
After all, the arguments that can be used against bigotry can also be used against bigotry towards bigots.
I had a good look at 'em, and took the time to listen too. Then I curled my lip.
If you are defining bigot as one who hates blindly, then I’m free and clear. I thought it over in advance. You don’t get my hate for free. Oh no, you’ve got to earn it.
I don’t hate anyone for what was handed to them by their parents/society/cash flow situation. I look at what they’ve done since then. It’s hard enough trying to get along in this life without putting up with losers who’s only message is to tear someone else down. That’s a bigot.
Opalcat called me an idiot AND rolled her eyes at me! If you can’t win a debate with that how can you win?
I gotta say, you’re really good. Some people can roll their eyes, and some people can call others idiots, but you did both IN THE SAME POST!!! Something’s up!
You have done what is only hinted at, with veiled references, in underground debating manuals. The kind of manuals that are so dangerous the Hell’s Angels refuse to traffic in them… The kind that are read once, and then burnt, for fear of anyone discovering their contents… These are secret techniques, thought to have dissappeared centuries ago, destroyed by the Catholic church for being too dangerous to use by mere mortals! Yet these methods were passed down secretly from master to student, always one step ahead of the authorities. Alexander the Great and Genghis Khan were knowledgeable in the ancient secrets, and used these skills to create their great empires. None could stand for long against Khan’s superbly trained army of debaters! All in their path were crushed!
And now YOU wield the might weapon! How could I ever hope to stand against you?
Hey, now, why ya gotta dis on Kansas in the OP? Ever been out here? It’s real nice. And if you’ll notice, they didn’t strike evolution from being taught, they just made it not mandatory. When the majority of the population doesn’t believe in it, why should the teaching be mandatory? Besides, it’s not like they made creationism or ‘intelligent design’ mandatory. All they did was open a little more room for option.
Anyway, Kansas is really a nice place. Come 'n visit. Leawood has the most $ per sq mile in the States, second only to Beverly Hills. It’s a REAL nice place. Vipers, Lambos, Ferraris, Porsches, etc. etc. Not to mention Kansas City’s beautiful Plaza (ever been?) and all it’s fountains, scultures, and boulevards (most boulevards vs. non-divideds in the States). Missouri is gorgeous, too. I live about a mile from a hermit. Ever met a hermit in real life? Neither have I. He’s a hermit (ha ha).
Sorry, but I take it up when someone gets down on my town…
I also apologize for being so corny tonite.
–Tim
We are the children of the Eighties. We are not the first “lost generation” nor today’s lost generation; in fact, we think we know just where we stand - or are discovering it as we speak.
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Shit! Now I’m against a pro!
You were up against a pro the first time sweet cheeks.
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I had a good look at 'em, and took the time to listen too. Then I curled my lip.
If you are defining bigot as one who hates blindly, then I'm free and clear. I thought it over in advance.
You don't get my hate for free. Oh no, you've got to earn it.
Any bigot can say the same things about those he hates.
Any there’s a specific definition of bigotry, I’m not re-defining any words here.
More cutsie word games.
So far your entire argument has been; anybody who hates anybody is a bigot so it's impossible to hate bigots without hating yourself. 100% bullshit. You can do better than that .... I hope.
Keep leading with your chin, it's improving your looks.
speakeasy: Look spunky, it’s obvious you’re either too stupid or too arrogant to have read the thread. Either that or you’ve experienced some sort of memory loss. What the fuck makes you think you’re important enough to make me repeat my argument?
You said the same thing as everyone else that I responded too. What the hell do you want from me? A personalized response? Want me to cut and paste everything I wrote before but put your name in fron of it? If you think you’re too good to go and read my responses to the exact same questions then it’s not even worth my time to insult you.
Yo Konrad!?!?! Take a Valium, eh? You look like a hysterical spaz who needs to push himself away from the computer every once in a while. Get a grip, psycho.
If you don’t want people to respond to your drivel, keep your trap shut. Not too hard of a concept, really, unless of course you don’t understand the big words.
(Anyone want to place bets that he will attempt to insult me by refering to his pud or call me a dyke?)
>^,^<
KITTEN
Please tell your pants it’s not polite to point.
I think this has gone far enough - it seems bigotry is hated by manhattan & Wally, but I keep reading them badmouth a particular group.
No, not Kansans (lived there and it deserves it’s reputation), I’m talking about Neandertals! This offshoot of humanity was quite probably smarter than our species at the time, and what do they get for all that sophistication? All that cave-dwelling and ritual-practice got them nothing but extinction and the on-going stereotype of being dumb and brutish. When will this end?
I bet you say shit like “kewl” and “B-4” too, don’t you?
Anyhow, I wasn’t trying to be witty (I’ll let you know when I am), I simply made the *observation that you SIR, are a complete and total dipshit who continues to make an ass of himself with displays of hysterics and last ditch efforts to insult by refering to your pee pee.
Aren’t you supposed to be in school and do your parents know you are screwing around on their computer?
Observation - a big word that Konrad doesn’t understand.
>^,^<
KITTEN
Please tell your pants it’s not polite to point.
Konrad, in the rare event that you are still reading this, I remember seeing this quote from a Kurt Vonnegut Jr story.
<hr>
Intolerance was an important issue of debate between my parents. Father was of course, a good fascist, and was intolerant of just about everything, except of course, Nazi’s. Mother would ask that he not bring any of the uniformed, swastika laden soldiers into her home. My father would then accuse her of gross intolerance. My mother, rather than play the semantic game, would get out a piece of paper and a pencil and begin her list:
[ul]Things Mother is Intolerant of:
[li]Nazis[/li]
Things Father is Intolerant of:
[li]Jews[/li][li]Communists[/li][li]Queers[/li][li]Buddhists[/li][li]Lesbians[/li][li]Chinamen[/li][li]Negroes[/li][li]Hindus[/li][li]Japs[/li][li]Unions[/li][li]Pollocks[/li][li]Environmentalists[/li][li]Catholics[/li][li]Mexicans[/li][li]Moslems[/li][li]Liberals[/li][li]Socialists[/li][li]Feminists[/li][li]Albanians[/li][li]Russians[/ul][/li]And then Mother would search around for more paper. Mother always made a big thing
out of searching around for more paper.
<hr>
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.