So cyclists should halve their speed and get on the unsafe bike paths in order to occaisonally save motorists the brief inconvienance of having to briefly slow down until they can safely pass? And you say cyclists have a “holier then thou” attitude? Heh.
The cost of the bike path is irrelevant.
Also, in this discussion, “lane/path” makes no sense: a “bike lane” is very different then a “bike path.” A lane is an actual lane on the road, specifically for bikes. Except at intersections, they’re generally safe and fast for competitive cyclists. A path is completely seperated from the road, and has features (narrow, filled with slower traffic that isn’t controlled by an enforced vehicular code, often a meandering and indirect path, etc.) that make it dangerous for competitive cyclists to use at a speed that does them any good for training or fun.
As well as many of the above mentioned reasons that someone might be in the street, a few of the Seattle suburbs (you didn’t mention which one you are in) have begun ticketing cyclists who exceed the posted speed limit (between 10 and 15mph) on the bike trails. So, in those suburbs, the cyclists who go faster than 15mph aren’t on the bike paths, they’re in the streets.
Now, perhaps the cyclists you encountered were being rude and stupid. ((There are rude, stupid, inconsiderate people on bicycles)) But there may also have been legitimate reasons.
We have a lot of both lanes and paths and all are well paved with asphalt. I am not worried so much about cyclists slowing down traffic as I am of them creating a safety hazard. The road I was thinking of when I posted is a two lane street with no bike lane and cars parked along the sides that is a commuter artery. There are asphalted bike trails (with two lanes!) that run parallel to this street a few hundred yards away. I’m happy to share the road with cyclists, but not when they’re being selfish asses about it.
I’m sorry, but I’m feeling some odd… sense of entitlement here.
Speaking as a touring cyclist, my rule was “Be Safe. Be Sane. The Heavier Object Always Has The Right Of Way.”
There are a lot of passengers behind the wheel and they will hit you if you don’t look.
I understand that you want to… competitive cyclist? What, recumbent? Track? race _something. So why don’t you hie thee to a track designed for racing cycles on.
And this thread wasn’t about one cyclist doing twenty in a road. It was about a gaggle of cyclists, six abreast, filling a lane. Depending on your traffic laws, this may be illegal.
Finally… I’m sorry if the bike path where you live is full of other people using bicycles and other means of transportation. Pick a different time to use it.
If it’s unsafe because of potholes, plan ahead and maybe get a beefier bike. (I remember one gentleman who took a $5000 aluminum cycle to Martha’s Vineyard. Cobblestones bent the frame like a pair of wings in a week. I was an early mountain bike adopter. Made one convert that evening.)
In the UK during the Agricultural Festivals around the country, these are not an uncommon sight, but much more common are JCB diggers (I think you guys call them backhoes or something)
…and these trundle around UK roads causing plenty of traffic jams wherever they go, but folk do not question their right to even be on the road.
It’s not occasionally, and it’s not just inconvenient, it is dangerous for both the cyclist and the driver. So, the cyclist decides that they doesn’t want to slow down occasionally for another cyclist on the bike path. Instead he decides to slow down cars. It’s a double standard which suggests a holier than thou attitude. Heh.
Where I live the path is well maintained and regularly swept.
Many will complain that since their tax dollars are used to build the road, they should be able to bike on it. I agree. Unless tax dollars were spent building a path. Then bikes should use the path. So it is relevant.
Nope, no reason to question their right. If, however, they had a special ‘trundling’ lane, and they did not use it, people would complain. And rightly so.
I think the vehicular codes override your rules on this matter.
I was a competitive road cyclist–I did road races and crits. The best place to train for road racing is… The road. I started to get into track racing, but college ended too soon. Ironically, the place where most training for track racing occurs (at least among those I knew) is… the road.
Yes, the OP was about cyclists riding six abreast. In that case, they may have been acting like assholes. But followups to the OP started injecting rhetoric that applied to broader situations. The statement you made immediately after the above in your post is a superb example of this:
The law (almost always) says that, if traffic laws are obeyed, cyclists can ride on the road. For a competitive cyclist (and some commuters), it’s the safest place to be. There’s a long precedence for this–the road is not the exclusive domain of motorists. Sorry.
I’m going to get radical here and suggest we ban all bike riding from major roads. Its just not safe for either the cars or the bikers. The bikers do the same thing in my area. The absolutely stunning bike path along the Delaware river is often ignored so that they can travel on the smoother road next to it. Of course on nice Sundays eveyone and their mothers are out driving on the road and we ALL have to wait for the inevidible jam the bikes cause. I wait with baited breath for new legislation that says if you want to ride a bike go to the park.
Most I’ve seen are contrary to what you assert.
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It’s pretty common knowledge that a major cause of accidents is a speed disparity between vehicles. Bicycles will cause that disparity.
I can’t search for a cite at the moment. But will look later.
You’re trying to prove the hypothesis “It’s less dangerous for bikes to ride on a path then on the road” by offering that, by your common knowledge, speed disparities cause accidents and bicycles cause a speed disparity.
This seems like a non sequitor to me, for many reasons:
[ul]
[li]Speed disparities may be a major cause of accidents for vehicles in general, but not necessarily for the specific case of car vs. bike.[/li][li]Speed disparities (between, say, a competitive road cyclist in training and a 10 year old on a BMX bike) also exist on bike paths.[/li][li]Speed disparities may be a major cause of accidents, but they are not the only cause: it seems like you’d need to demonstrate that the other causes aren’t statistically relevant for this to be your sole supporting “fact.”[/li][li]Common knowledge doesn’t trump a cite of a study based on an actual study of accidents.[/li][/ul]
Meta we are from the same area so maybe you can explain the attraction that road bikers have for the peice of street right after the spillway on White Rock Lake. I am a mountain biker and I have tried those roads. They are really baddly maintained and I wouldn’t imagine to take my road bike out on them with my 1-inch tires. The actual path along the lake is now about 10 feet wide with 2 lanes and it is paved in blacktop as is a good street. No pot holes. No driveways. The occasional pedestrian. All are polite and will move when you yell “Track Right!”
I know what the laws are and I take advantage of them myself form time to time and use a lane. I do however try to keep up my speed or get out of the way of traffic. It’s just the polite thing to do.
My schedule was very fine tuned at that time. I have two jobs and not much leeway between them. I have to be able to take the road and move at a reasonable rate. F-you Casdave.
Let me repeat with emphasis: In case of all arguments, the heavier object has right of way.
Why? Because it will KILL YOU. No. I’m not kidding. It’s darn dangerous to ignore this rule. If you ride obliviously, you may very well get hurt. This is not a legal concept. This is a practical concept.
Second: In this case, Metacom would like to train for competition. Road racing. In which case, he has no need to be somewhere at a specific time. Therefore, he can shift the time he uses the path to some point when fewer people are out.
Thirdly: One cyclist can be handled. More than two abreast is a road hazard. I am a safe and considerate driver, and a safe and considerate cyclist.
On the other hand, you may run into someone like county who doesn’t care if he hits you. If you follow basic rules of courtesy, county will simply drive on. If you are rude, he may very well play bump’n’go with you. I’ve seen people do it for less reason.
So. In order: The big heavy cars can kill other people in cars. They can easily kill and maim cyclists. Wear your helmet and ride like they’re trying to kill you.
I’m going to get radical here and suggest that we ban all automobiles from major roads. It’s just not safe for either the cars or the bikers, and the cars pose much more of a threat to the cyclists than vice versa.
When a car slows down for a bike he is now in disparity with other cars. It’s more dangerous for everyone, not just the bike.
I looked at your graph. I wonder if there is something similar for fatalities, not just accidents. I would much rather hit a BMX kid going 20 mph slower than me, than be hit by a car going 40 mph faster than me.
By this reasoning 18 wheelers always have the right of way.
Drivers with guns also get the right of way.
The right of way is established by laws and not what vehicle is heavier, faster or more dangerous. Common sense dictates that when you have the right of way you take it and that you yield when appropriate-irregardless of your vehicles weight. People that don’t understand this should not be allowed to operate vehicles in the road.
It’s pretty common knowledge that a major cause of accidents is a speed disparity between vehicles. Bicycles will cause that disparity.
I can’t search for a cite at the moment. But will look later. **
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Yeah, right - the disparity is the problem when one vehicle is stopped and the other runs into him.
Better listen to E Sabbath:
"Speaking as a touring cyclist, my rule was “Be Safe. Be Sane. The Heavier Object Always Has The Right Of Way.”
That is a rule for anyone on any kind of 2 wheel vehicle out there on the motorways - you want to explain to the ambulance driver how you had the right-of-way, well go ahead, me I’ll give up my “right-of-way”
Ironically, the place where most training for track racing occurs (at least among those I knew) is… the road.