:dubious: I know nothing about this revolutionary hotbed that is the Tucson ethnic-studies program, but somebody needs to explain to Pearce that Mexico is part of Western civilization.
Is there any Doper familiar with Arizona politics who can explain just WTF is going on here?!
They also need to understand that unfettered criticism of the government is as PRO-American as it gets.
I’m not familiar with Arizona politics, but I am familiar with the phenomenon of state politicians trying to score points by messing around with education. Many such proposals are made, a few are passed, some of those enacted turn out to be unactionable, and a handful are enshrined in educational policy to become hassles for everyone involved in actually educating students.
Many such proposals come from social conservatives, like the one you describe, but by no means all. One of the most notorious in my workplace is the provision in California that no state-adopted educational materials may promote unhealthy eating. In practice, this means no more story problems in the fraction lessons about pieces of pizza, and no more sentences in the adjectives lessons about desserts at a potluck (unless the desserts are all fruit salad).
Seriously? Here I thought it was to educate people, so they wouldn’t be dumbasses. Apparently, I was wrong. Maybe it’s time to start looking at private schools. I think a little part of me just died inside. 
So federal tax dollars SHOULD go to school organizations that promote sedition?
Seriously?
So something that is “used to denigrate American values and the teachings of Western civilization,” assuming that any kind of consensus could be reached on what that phrase means, promotes sedition?
Seriously?
No way, they should stop teaching both the American Revolution and the Civil War right away.
Is that what they’re promoting? I’m not all that informed about the subject of the push to exclude them from funding. I just thought the premise of the bill is hopelessly ill-conceived: that public education is primarily about inculcating American values as opposed to teaching the 'three R’s.
I thought that was what the media was for, actually. 
Yes, because obviously that’s what everyone here has been saying. :rolleyes:
Criticism of the government is not remotely the same as rebellious activity, despite what some politicians have said.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.” - Teddy Roosevelt. I see no reason why this does not apply in equal measure to the government as a whole.
Oh, and Brown Eyed Girl, the idea is that one of the purposes of education is to instill the values of American citizenship in students. It’s not the only one, but that’s why we have Civics classes and have books like To Kill A Mockingbird as assigned reading (which is one of the best books I’ve ever read, although there is some, shall we say, unpleasantness at parts).
How do they plan to avoid both denigrating American values and “the teachings of Western civilisation”? It’s not like there’s no overlap there, especially considering what is apparently their concept of “American values”.
Oh, and “a primary purpose” doesn’t make sense. I don’t know whether pointing that out or not denigrates the values of the bill-writer, though.
One man’s sedition…
Incidentally, that word does not have a happy history in the United States and all too often is used as a club to mute political views that the guys in power find a threat to their continuance in power. See, for instance, the Alien and Sedition Act of 1798. I have to think that the Arizona proposal is more of a polemic than thoughtful and statesman like legislation designed to deal with a real problem.
No, no, I get that. It’s extremely important for citizens to understand American civics, but the key phrase here is ‘one of the purposes’, not the primary purpose. And it’s not just civics that American public schools are teaching, in fact, you don’t get a whole lot of civics as opposed to other subjects. Look at graduation requirements: often four years of math as opposed to maybe one year of social studies (which could be anything from economics to sociology). They aren’t teaching civic values primarily, they are teaching a little bit of everything (and a LOT of mathematics)!
Oh, and I’m totally with you on To Kill A Mockingbird. Love, love, love that book. 
Absolutely. That would make me proud of my government (seriously); and you can’t help but enjoy the irony.
Federal funding is not at issue in this bill.
I don’t know what the text of the bill is in its entirety, and neither do you. You’ve taken what is likely to be the most easily sensationalized part of it and built your entire argument around a soundbyte.
All I’m saying is that when you look at the bottom line, without the media sensationalism, I don’t see anything wrong with the state of AZ witholding tax dollars from organizations that promote undermining or overthrowing the government.
That doesn’t mean I support a crackdown or ban on those groups. They have every right to organize and say whatever they want, assuming they aren’t urging violence. I just don’t want my tax dollars spent to teach someone a radical political agenda, and I’m sure you don’t either.
Of course not. My mistake.
Jesus. This is the first I’ve heard of THAT. I dunno what’s going on in those Tucson schools to make a Mesa politician afraid (although the reconquista movement is getting a tad…vocal…down there, and I wonder how it’s making itself known in the schools), but that’s just bizarre.
I’m not sure where some of you are getting the idea that there won’t be cultural diversity classes…the article specifically says it wouldn’t target them. A cultural diversity credit is actually a requirement in Arizona universities, and a foreign language class is a state requirement for an endorsement high school diploma.
Now, prohibiting cultural ogranizations on college campuses from forming…I don’t know what that’s about, although I can tell you it was a hot button topic when I went to ASU in the '90s.
That’s rich. It’s the same source you used. Goose sauce, etc. At least mine was a direct quote from the proposed bill.
Which organizations are these, exactly?
I don’t pay taxes in Arizona.
The Black Business Students Association is trying to overthrow the government?
Why don’t you look it up then? It’s not hard. From the definition of “dissent from values of American democracy and western civilization”, we get this:
(Bolding mine.) That, to me, says that you aren’t even allowed to teach about anything that is in conflict with this nebulous concept of “the values of American democracy and western civilization.” A course solely on communism, even were it entirely dispassionate–critical, even–would leave a school liable to restriction of funds. That may not be the intended effect, but as far as I can see, it’s what the amendment says.
It’s surely even more impossible for you to cavil about the elimination of race-based student bodies:
No sensationalism there, is there?
So, now we’ve established that this isn’t all made up out of whole cloth, what’s your defence?