[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
I don’t think it changes very much, and I said in the original thread that it was my opinion.
[/QUOTE]
I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt until this. Are you saying your two comments are the same?
“It explains why black people are better at music, for instance.” is the same as
“…my opinion and I really do think that some cultural influences could explain why Black American music has tended to be (IMO) so much more vibrant, inventive and expressionistic than white music.”
Can you at least take some of this pitting seriously? Not everyone here knows all about you. I only know you from a few threads.
“There is apparently scientific evidence backing it up. Neither one of us is a neurologist or an expert on brain physiology, so neither one of us is in a position to say the study is “bullshit.” It actually makes a lot of sense to me. It explains why black people are better at music, for instance.”
That was Diogenes the Cynic’s original comment. Let’s try his new version-
“There is apparently scientific evidence backing it up. Neither one of us is a neurologist or an expert on brain physiology, so neither one of us is in a position to say the study is “bullshit.” It actually makes a lot of sense to me. It explains why some cultural influences could explain why Black American music has tended to be (IMO) so much more vibrant, inventive and expressionistic than white music.”
[QUOTE=you with the face]
The only people who deserve the benefit of the doubt when it comes to being called racist are Michael Richards and Don Imus. Please get with the program.
[/QUOTE]
Arguments about aesthetics opinion are stupid, which is why I haven’t gotten involved, but are you sure you mean expressionistic or are you going for expressive? I’ve heard many different musics described many different ways, but never heard Black American music described as expressionistic. I think Schoenberg and his friends might be startled by you usage.
[/QUOTE]
No, I meant “expressionistic,” perhaps not in the most formal sense, but in the sense of containing some of the characteristics which define that movement. Subjectivity, intensity of emotion and distortions of traditional tonality, for instance, are all present in blues and jazz and in the successors to those genres. I can also hear it in hip hop.
[QUOTE=blinkingblinking]
Let’s see if the two comments work -
“There is apparently scientific evidence backing it up. Neither one of us is a neurologist or an expert on brain physiology, so neither one of us is in a position to say the study is “bullshit.” It actually makes a lot of sense to me. It explains why black people are better at music, for instance.”
That was Diogenes the Cynic’s original comment. Let’s try his new version-
“There is apparently scientific evidence backing it up. Neither one of us is a neurologist or an expert on brain physiology, so neither one of us is in a position to say the study is “bullshit.” It actually makes a lot of sense to me. It explains why some cultural influences could explain why Black American music has tended to be (IMO) so much more vibrant, inventive and expressionistic than white music.”
[/QUOTE]
I can only assume this is some really lame attempt at humour. I do not know. I do not know you.
Can you at least take some of this pitting seriously? Not everyone here knows all about you. I only know you from a few threads.
[QUOTE=blinkingblinking]
I can only assume this is some really lame attempt at humour. I do not know. I do not know you.
Can you at least take some of this pitting seriously? Not everyone here knows all about you. I only know you from a few threads.
[/QUOTE]
I am serious. The second iteration is esssentially the same as the first with an “IMO” thrown in and a little more expansion on what I meant by “better.”
So is your position that the qualities of “black music” arise from particular neurological/physiological properties of black brains which tend to differ from those of whites or not?
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
No, I meant “expressionistic,” perhaps not in the most formal sense, but in the sense of containing some of the characteristics which define that movement. Subjectivity, intensity of emotion and distortions of traditional tonality, for instance, are all present in blues and jazz and in the successors to those genres. I can also hear it in hip hop.
[/QUOTE]
Fair enough. I’ve never heard that description used for jazz, so I wanted to be clear. It would be an interesting topic of discussion, but not for here.
[QUOTE=Indistinguishable]
So is your position that the qualities of “black music” arise from particular neurological/physiological properties of black brains which tend to differ from those of whites or not?
[/QUOTE]
Not. My position is that a.) there is a distinct difference (IMO) in quality and b.) the cultural, pedagogical differences claimed in one particularly study made sense to me as an explanation. If that explanation is wrong, then I assume there is some other cultural explanation.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Well, of course, I found the pitting so absurd, I decided I might as well play along with some “cites.”
[/QUOTE]
[quote]
Once I got pitted, I found the pile on and the charge that I was a racist so hard to take seriously that I think I did have a bit of my tongue in my cheek while I was defending my position. I still can’t believe anyone really thinks I’m a racist./quote]
If true, this is an admission of textbook trolling.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Not. My position is that a.) there is a distinct difference (IMO) in quality and b.) the cultural, pedagogical differences claimed in one particularly study made sense to me as an explanation. If that explanation is wrong, then I assume there is some other cultural explanation.
[/QUOTE]
Alright. But if your view was that the study only concerned cultural, pedagogical differences, why would you feel one would have to be a neurologist or an expert in brain physiology in order to evaluate it?
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
I am serious. The second iteration is esssentially the same as the first with an “IMO” thrown in and a little more expansion on what I meant by “better.”
[/QUOTE]
The first comment came in a discussion about brain physiology. How on earth could they be the same?
I am losing respect for Diogenes the Cynic with each posting he makes. Does anyone else have the same experience?
I am losing respect for Diogenes the Cynic with each posting he makes. Does anyone else have the same experience?
[/QUOTE]
Every now and again, Dio just goes berserk and starts posting stuff that is, well, really stupid and/or ignorant. He’ll cast his opinion as fact, make sweeping blanket pronouncements, and then, after he’s been beaten about the head and shoulders, he’ll begin by defending himself and attacking those who criticize him. A multi-page trainwreck will follow. He’ll then, slowly, begin to back away from his original bombast, often while failing to acknowledge that he said something truly stupid in the first place.
A few weeks or months will pass, and then we’ll do it all over again.
I realized it long ago. Dio was actually the first Doper who I pit… after he alleged that the US military was engaged in a “campaign of genocide” in Iraq. Q.E.D.'s signature is this post. From this thread. At the time, Dio not only failed to understand why his assertions were ignorant and offensive, but defended himself for some time.
Learning about Dio means that you recognize that every now and again, he just spouts bluster and bombast and goes a little bit nuts. In that mode, he is the very object lesson of ignorance fighting back. Most posters who know him, I’d wager, have learned enough to either just step back or mock him.
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
I’m sure you meant that to sting. Perhaps if you explain why my statement is just as bad as the most racist bullshit you’ve seen for a while it actually would. You might start by explaining why his statement was such an extreme example of racist bullshit.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=blinkingblinking]
The first comment came in a discussion about brain physiology. How on earth could they be the same?
I am losing respect for Diogenes the Cynic with each posting he makes. Does anyone else have the same experience?
[/QUOTE]
As I’ve already explained, I initially misunderstood the study to be be claiming that differences in pedagogical styles had an affect on right/brain left brain neurology. After reading it again, I no longer thought that it was intended to say anything about neurology.