Sake
If the two men that dragged the black man are executed for their crime, will they be more dead if a hate crime status is added to their docket?
Are gays a legitimate minority group that should have the protection of a hate crime bill? Isn’t that stretching the term minority group a bit too much? Is one group to be more protected than the next? Won’t every group want the same protection?
Truth is something you stumble into when you think you’re going someplace else.
[Jerry Garcia]
A number of the posters seem to take it as a fact that blacks are seldom charged with hate crimes. Does anyone have any non-anecdotal evidence that this is the case? Several years ago, when I was in law school, my Criminal Law professor told the class that, to the surprise of the proponents of hate-crime laws, blacks are often charged under such laws, perhaps disproportionately often.
I’ll try to find out the truth of the matter…
What a great sn Deus Ex.
Truth is something you stumble into when you think you’re going someplace else.
[Jerry Garcia]
About the time of the Rodney King riots, a white woman in South Carolina was gang raped and tortured to death by a gang of blacks who openly boasted at their trial that they had committed the crime out of hatred for whites. This was reported in the Atlanta Journal and Constitution in a small one paragraph story in the middle of the paper.
There were, of course, the Zebra killers in LA some time in the 70’s. This was an inner cult in the Nation of Islam in LA which murdered whites in order to earn “wings.” Only about a dozen or so cases were prosecuted, but police strongly suspected that the cult may have been responsible for hundreds of murders.
I have twice been assaulted by blacks. The second time was a robbery attempt (I’m pleased to say that I beat the hell out of him), but the first time was simply a couple of blacks looking for a white person to beat up, and I happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. (Klanman, take no comfort here. It was a couple of black cops who pulled them off me before I was seriously injured or killed.)
I don’t hate all blacks or even most blacks because of what a few of them have done to me. But it disturbs me deeply that black violence against whites receives virtually no attention from the mainstream media and academia. White fears about black violence are not mere paranoia or ignorant racism. They have a solid foundation in reality. When lefties hastily dismiss anyone who attempts to discuss the subject as a racist (or an “Uncle Tom” if black) they come across as prejudiced and dishonest. A black who kills a white is much more likely to torture the victim and mutilate the corpse than a white who murders a black (another AJ&C article I read years ago). In view of that fact, it is difficult to deny that much black on white violence is racially motivated. We can’t have any kind of honest, rational dialogue about race in this country unless this subject is seriously addressed. Just as we should not accept excuses for the hundreds of lynchings which terrorized blacks earlier in this century, so we should not accept excuses for blacks criminals who target whites out of racial hatred.
Pole cat
You rightly don’t hate all blacks for the crimes and violence of a few, but, interestly, most blacks will hold the entire white race responsible for what some whites did to blacks a hundred or so years ago. What is always omitted from the awful history of black slavery is that BLACKS delivered other captured blacks to white Europeans and Arabs for money. No one is without sin.
Truth is something you stumble into when you think you’re going someplace else.
[Jerry Garcia]
I swear, from reading some of these, you’d think all black criminals are innocent, but just railroaded by racist cops, judges, etc.
You haven’t been to the neighborhoods I’ve visited 
As for John John’s posting above, exactly how many whites should feel guilty for slavery? You figure in the 1860s, less than 1/3 of the population lived in the South. Of that, probably less than 10% could afford a slave and the upkeep involved. Even a smaller percentage probably owned those large plantations.
Since 1860, there has been mass immigration from Germany, Scandinavia, Eastern Europe, etc. All are white, yet they came too late to own slaves, futher decreasing the percentage of ex-slaveowners.
I don’t have any hard stats, but how many of us could’ve descended from slaveowners?
What at interesting general statement about “most” people in a group I’d guess you’re not part of. Of course, I’m sure you’ve conducted well-documented surveys of blacks to determine that most blame whites alive now for what happened during slavery. There’s no way you would make such an apparently bigoted statement without evidence.
Hmmm… when did you go to school, John John?
See, I’m in there now, and they teach it. A lot of posters make comments about stuff they won’t teach in high school; but things change and they’re (you’re) complaining about problems that don’t exist anymore. Usually, I let it go. But you’re a jerk, so I’m letting you know- uness you’re a student or teach, you probably don’t have any idea what it is or isn’t taught in school.
–J. Michael (I do’t want to be confused with JJ )
Miskch’s Law- It’s better to have a horrible ending than horrors without end.
I read the article, and I would like to make one thing clear: Just because the perpetrator and the victim are different races, doesn’t mean that the crime is a hate crime.
KM2:
Of course, this rather blithely ignores that well over 90% of the people in the South actively supported the institution of slavery, (going to war to protect it), even if they didn’t own slaves. It also ignores the fact that after slavery was abolished, effective slavery was re-instituted in the form of Jim Crow laws that were only repealed in the last 30 years. It further ignores that fact that most of the Europeans who did immigrate competed directly with blacks for jobs and that when layoffs occurred, the blacks could generally expect to see the more recently employed immigrants kept on while the blacks were laid off.
I don’t expect anyone to feel guilty about something that their great-grandparents might or might not have been involved with. I do insist that people, today, should have the historical consciousness to realize that vast numbers of people were able to get ahead because of the way that blacks were treated.
The “Africans sold their own people” line is a red herring. If you find yourself in a face-to-face discussion with Louie Farrakhan, by all means pull it out and wave it in his face when he starts in with idiot rants against Jews or whoever.
There was a qualitative difference between the slavery that existed in Africa and most parts of the world and that which arose in the United States. U.S. slavery is the only one which has been defined exclusively on race, and the only one that I am aware of in which a freed person could be re-enslaved simply by being the wrong color in the wrong place. That Africans participated in the enslavement of other Africans is a fact. That the slave trade as we knew it existed solely to provide black labor for white landowners is also fact. While slavery occurred in many parts of the world prior to its institutionalization, here, it was generally a matter of tens or thousands of persons taken in war. The slavery practiced by Europeans created a market in which the slave trade reached the millions. Without the American market, African slavery would have been just another run-of-the-mill example of inhuman acts by humans. With that market, more people of all races were encouraged to perpetuate an abomination.
Tom~
I got tired of reading the thread and all, so I’m just going to play devil’s advocate with something I’ve noticed here: He’s from Alabama. Likely his family isn’t exactly poor, but likely doesn’t have much money. I bet it’s an old computer. Slow, and such. Also, while he may be educated, his parents probably aren’t, and who are a person’s greatest influences? A person is a product of his environment. He has been conditioned to hate all other races blindly and without reason. It’s what he’s been TAUGHT, people. He doesn’t know any different. He got banned for espousing what he’s been taught is true. We don’t ban aethiests for their posts, we don’t ban the Christians, ad nauseum. Yet he was banned. I don’t think he should have been. He has a right to air his views, and, I would hope, become educated in the flaws in judgement within them. As to people spouting the “Don’t be a jerk” rule. It’s my belief that the rule should refer not to people who are being rascist, or stupid, or sharing a view that we all disagree with, but only to persons who, for no reason, personally attack a member. Not once, but repeatedly, without mercy. Just post after post of (name pulled from my ass) “Jack’s eat’s his dead mom’s pussy and gives his boyfriend head while eating shit and sucking on horses’s dicks!” I think that’s what the no jerks rule should mean. Not blanket banishment of all posters with volitile views.
–Tim
We are the children of the Eighties. We are not the first “lost generation” nor today’s lost generation; in fact, we think we know just where we stand - or are discovering it as we speak.
You still here, klanman?
t&d, I thought you would espouse a different point when you started.
The fact of the matter is that slavery in Africa was different from slavery here. I believe that there it was FAR more humane (slaves were still people) and wasn’t permanent. I’m not entirely sure about that, it may have come from a liberal source, still, it probably has a grain of truth. They didn’t practice slavery because Europeans did, they practiced it because they practiced it.
Surgoshan, I don’t think that we have to be in opposition. Humans have tended to hold slaves throughout history. It has manifested itself in many different ways. European serfs and the caste system of India are two forms of slavery that are not often recognized as such. There have been horrible examples (Aztec sacrifices) and less malign examples (much of the “service industry” of ancient Rome revolved around “servants” who were treated well enough, but who were not allowed to change jobs or bosses).
The first black slaves brought to (what would become) the U.S. were simply indentured servants, capable of earning their freedom after seven or fourteen years. Beginning in the 1660’s, however, laws were passed that declared that any African slave was a slave for life. Laws were written that a freed slave who was found without papers could be taken and sold. Other laws prohibited teaching black slaves to read or write. While a handful of blacks were able to win freedom and remain in the South (usually in the separate culture of Louisiana), they had to work against laws that were written to put so many barriers up that masters would simply never bother freeing their slaves.
While it is true that slavery has existed throughout much of history, it remains true that the millions of humans brought to this country as slaves were brought in response to a market created for their services. Slavery existed in Africa before the first whites began landing on the shores of sub-Sahara Africa. However, slavery in Africa would never have become the enormous devourer of people without the American market.
Tom~
Howdy all,
I am from Alabama as well. My mom finished the ninth grade. My dad, who felt completely lost in the south, is from Pennslyvania. He did graduate and went to college four years. He went to college while I was growing up. He had very little to do with me because he worked two jobs and went to college. I put myself through college. We are not rich and my computer is a refurbished one. A lot of my family members are predjudice. They think I am a freak of nature and have called my mom and told her so. I do not like any kind of stereotype. I do not see why people hate just because others or different. A person is known by his actions. I truly believe people who hate others actually hate themselves and it makes them feel big or better if they cause others trouble. My wonderful P family hate when I bring up their many faults. They also hate when I bring up the fact that we might be mixed. No I do not have any proof but if it were true, the proof would of course be hidden.
Love ones self and the love will grow for others.
Yeah, dan, I always rip in to people who show any tendancy toward sectionalism. I’ve met northerners, southerners, westerners. It’s all the same. Everyone has stupid, biased opinions about others. It takes work to get rid of them.
So, It may be that KM’s dad wasn’t too educated, but it was wrong to say that, because he might not be. Highly intelligent people can be racist too, and not all colleges are liberal (look at Liberty university).
And, dan, sorry about your family, but you’re right. Just look to yourself if you have to, but sectionalism is just another form of tribalism (like racism).
ExTank said:
“But I don’t think, on general principle, that a topic or person should be banned from this board just because it and they are socially vile, as long as they can be (in the moderator’s opinion) intelligent and coherent.”
So you can be an ass as long as your intelligent and coherent? Sorry, I’m not buying it. You can’t compare Klanman with anyone intelligent or coherent. I would love to enter a debate with a truly evil person that was intelligent, but this schmuck uses little gems that show nothing of value to me or any right thinking adult. I come here to learn and I don’t need Klanman to remind me that there are plenty who have never tried.
You came here to learn? I came here back when the SD was still on AOL and archived, and searched through the sex section. Well, technically, that might be considered learning.
Interesting that this K. fellow (for KKK, I assume)hates all members of an ethnic group because they are apparently responsible for a higher percentage of crimes. Yet he himself belongs to the 49% of the population that is responsibility for at least 99% of the violent crimes, and even closer to 100% of the crimes against women; males.
And I like guys… only an ignorant bigot would blame all males for this staggering statistic.
Actually, Jill, KM2 was originally Klanman. Thus his name is obvious.
I know the original name, I just wanted to stick in the reminder, when he claims “not to hate all” black folks.
Tom: you are a brilliant historian, but in this thread I think you are wrong. You said the Southerns went to war because they supported slavery. You are wrong. They went to war over states rights! It wasn’t until after the war between the states that the good ol’ U.S. of A. was even called that. My relatives are from South Carolina and I am sorry that the South didn’t win. It wouldn’t have helped as much in WWII but I think it would have been worth the risk to have even one scintilla of autonomy from the Federal Gov’t that is choking the life blood out of its most productive citizens!
Just my opinion.
Phaedrus