:rolleyes:
Next we’ll hear that terrorists are learning their tactics from Counterstrike.
No, that’s where our Counter-terrorist teams learn their tactics.
By the way, I’ve been playing CS for many hours in the past few days (trying to relieve some stress), and I have to say, it’s never been more satisfying to cap a few dozen terrorists.
cold, hard proof that microsoft is taking over the world–they are aiding terrorists with their popular flight sim!
jonfromdenver, I know you’re kidding, but I really don’t think it’s funny right now. I lost someone very close to me, and the last thing I need to read right now, even in jest, is a joke at my company’s expense inferring that we are in any way responsible.
I hate to say it, but I actually thought of flight simulators when this happened. Here’s why:
When I was on a flight into Meigs a few years back, a coworker said to me that he flew this route whenever he loaded up his flight simulator. But, he said, he kept crashing into the Sears Tower.
Now, obviously these were real trained pilots. But it would not surprise me to find out that they learned more about the locations of specific buildings by using flight simulators, some of which have very detailed information in that regard.
This is certainly not to say that such simulators are to blame, just that it wouldn’t surprise me if they were used.
Notice they don’t give the names of any flight simulators. Maybe because the one that they are talking about on MSNBC is MS Flight Simulator?
As an avid FS fan, I suspected this was coming since it was clear that the terrorists had flight training. Hell, after hours landing 747s, 777s, and 767s on ILS with 40 knot cross winds, turbulence, and rain, I feel relatively confident that evn I could fly one of those into a World Trade Tower. Of course, the key point of the debate which is carefully omitted when we are looking for easy answers, is that I do not possess the mindset to hijack a plane and do that. No amount of flight simulator banning will get rid of the mindset. Where there is a will, there is a way. Especially when the will is strong enough to convince you to kill yourself and 70 innocents.
Blaming flight simulators in this instance is just as preposterous, if not more, than blaming the Columbine shootings on “Doom”.
ElwoodCuse is right, we shouldn’t be blaming flight sims. but to be honest, it is very logical that terrorists could use these programs for their own purposes. i play counterstrike and max payne all the time, and i’m wondering if i have the ability to shoot accurately (no bad intentions here, folks, just an observation).
BTW, sorry Dooku, i was letting my dislike for microsoft get the better of me, when this is a time to put trivial things aside. my condolences.
Speaking of Microsoft Flight Simulator:
I understand Microsoft has already removed the World Trade Center towers from the terrain to be used in the next edition of MS Flight Simulator.
That’s not a great analogy, as most flight simulations that live up to the name -are- directly trying to replicate situations and skills via similar input methods, whereas <insert generic action game here> has no such aim.
…unless you were actually serious with that statement, at which point I have nothing to say.
Um, is that for realism? or are they trying to make sure that no one ever runs into them again… :rolleyes:
If you’re not familiar with a firearm, I seriously doubt it.
While the mechanics of flying can be, to a point, fairly adequately replicated on a PC with a yoke/wheel and pedals connected to a good flight program, the mechanics of shooting are far different than using a keyboard and mouse. Yes, in a really good game, the visuals may be close enough to be adequate (I haven’t seen one so yet) but the physical hold, the “muscle memory”, is completely different for the ‘real thing.’
That’s not to say you’d be a bad shot, just keep in mind that getting to such-and-such a level on such-and-such Very Difficult Game, does not translate to real-world skill. 
Getting back to the OP- It was my impression that the news reports were referring to actual flight simulators, not ‘game’ or ‘home’ type small-PC flight simulators. Has anyone mentioned MS FlightSim by name?
The reports were PC flight simulators. From first hand experience I can tell you that MS flight sim has quite detailed 3D simulations of NYC, Tokyo & Paris, (and other cities) and lower resolution maps of just about every airport in the USA. (I can’t speak to the accuracy personally, but I’m told that the NYC map is quite accurate)
The NYC map has been available for MS flight sim since 1995.
MS flight sim also has a very detailed representation of a 767 (& 777?) cockpit. Remember that Boeing is only a few miles south of Microsoft, and they enjoyed the PR value of having their aircraft in the simulation.
If you make criminals out of flight simulator users, then only criminals will have flight simulators.
MS Flight Sim and SubLogic Flight Sim, which were just about identical, have had good representations of the New York, Chicago, Boston, Los Angeles, Seattle and San Francisco areas since at least 1985, when I first got SubLogic Flight Sim for the Apple IIe. I clearly remember flying a Cessna between the Twin Towers when I was in 1985, when I was in 5th grade or so.
MS Flight Sim 2000 has a built-in 777. It is quite easy to buy or download for free at a site like http://www.flightsim.com panels and models for any 767 or 757 of your choosing. I believe MS Flight Sim 2002 will have more commercial aviation built-ins, but I’m sure it will have the same level of expandability that 2000 has.
Tejota wrote:
Correction: MS Flight Simulator 2000 (the latest release currently available) only models a Boeing 737 and a Boeing 777. It does not model a 767, 757, or, for that matter, a 747.
767 models are available for MS Flight Simulator in several add-on accessory packages, but these add-ons are not produced by Microsoft.
edwino wrote:
Woops, sorry. I should’ve hit “refresh” before making my last post.
Microsoft’s official Flight Simulator 2002 website is at http://www.microsoft.com/games/fs2002/. According to that site, FS2002 is due out in autumn of this year, and will add the Boeing 747 to the list of planes it models. No word about the 757 or 767, though.
Um maybe I missed it but I don’t think the writer was “blaming” flight simulators but just suggesting that they may have helped terrorists by giving them some pratice of blowing up the WTC on a realistic Manhattan simulation. Sounds reasonable to me.
I don’t think he or anyone else would suggest that flight simulators be banned or anything.
that’s not exactly true. counterstrike is one of the first action games to attempt to simulate real world conditions. for example, recoil is simulated in that if you shoot continuously and not in short bursts, you’re aim goes wild. you also die after one to three bullet shots, which is unlike most action games. and i know it is not a good analogy in that you can’t physically feel the recoil, but it only affects your aim. my point is counterstrike has the ability to enhance one’s training in the use of firearms, just like flight sims do with flying. no sim can prepare you for the actual situation, no matter what is being simulated.
CyberPundit wrote:
BAN FLIGHT SIMULATORS!
Er … sorry.