I’m sure some of you have heard what Atlanta Braves player John Rocker has said.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/1999/1222/247659.html
They’re saying he’s finished in baseball. Yeah, right, teams bring back players who beat women, abandon their children, choke their coach, deal drugs, kill people while driving drunk,… oh, wait, this is the 90s! Racist words are much worse than those!!
Thoughts?
I agree. If he was soliciting transvestite hookers while driving drunk on a three-day coke binge, it would all blow over in a week. But, by insulting minorities, no one wants to play ball with him?
His comments were a little blue by today’s PC standards. You can relate that he wanted to belittle folks from NY, both to stir up the rivalry and to vent a little for the abuse he got while playing there (I understand batteries and other projectiles were hurled at him during his last visit). He didn’t even use any of the four-star racist words. But still, to mention that he needs to be tossed out of the league cuz he hates New Yorkers? Come on. Maybe a little sensitivity training (today’s catch-all), and then back to the mound.
One of the insults that has gotten a lot of play lately is calling an african-american person ‘a big ape’; happened in hockey a couple of times last year. However, if you call a white guy ‘a big ape’, is it still hateful speech? What if you called an african-american ‘a dumb frog’? Obviously hate term for French-Canadian players, but reasonably innocent for an african-american.
Something else that gets me (slight hijack) is that other white subcultures have to grin and bear it when racist slurs are made about them. I speak specifically of the ‘Minneapolis looks like it was laid out by drunken Irishmen’ comment from Jesse Ventura, or, even, the ‘knick-knack paddywhack’ song, which glorifies violence against Irish immigrants from the turn of the century. I never hear from the ‘Irish Anti-Defamation League’.
And don’t say that they couldn’t attend because they were at the bar…grin
-Danny O’Spankboy
From Hell’s heart, I stab at thee-
Click here and scroll down to the letter titled “Pride O’ The Irish.”
As one who lives among the Irish in San Francisco, I must say the idea hasn’t really caught on.
I think the point is that it’s a private organization that’s taking the action.
If you go to work for someone, there is an agreement to work by their rules.
If their rules say, “You can’t take verbal potshots at specific groups and subcultures you don’t like,” then you abide, or you break the rules and get fired, which is close to the case at hand.
And if that same organization is willing to tolerate hoodlum behavior on and off the field, and you don’t agree with that, then you have the option of not working for them (if you’re a player or some other employee) or not watching it on TV.
Another consideration is that in today’s litigious society, comments like that that go unpunished could conceivably be used as evidence in a lawsuit of (whatever) discrimination toward (whatever) group.
So, often an employer would rather fire a “potential problem,” preferring to deal with that fallout instead.
Welcome to The United States of the Offended.
Whatever happened to freedom of speech in America? Was the Bill of Rights repealed over the Christmas holiday and I missed it?
So he insulted some minority groups and the citizens of New York City. Big deal - A hit dog usually yelps the loudest.
Let him say whatever he feels like saying!
Ignorant people have the very same right to voice their opinions freely as much as the educated ones do.
Remember, “Sticks & stones will hurt me but names never will”? Why are you (the offended) even giving these ignoramuses the time of day? No matter how much whining & complaining you do, you will not change their minds nor their attitudes towards your particular minority group.
Someone spoke of corporate image. I am quite familiar with the concept but I pity any organization that prevents the free exchange of ideas and opinions.
Haven’t you gotten through your thick heads that we can not all live together happily ever-after?! Ever hear of Bosnia?
Perception is Reality. The more and more press coverage that is given to these idiots, then the perception grows that they are acceptable - “Gee, honey it was on TV so it must be true.”
Fortunately, most of these idiots almost always choke upon inserting their feet into their narrow-minded, big mouths.
“Quoth the Raven, ‘Nevermore.’”
E A Poe
Do black athletes get penalized for saying similar stuff about whites, Jews, Asians, etc?
Screw sensitivity training, “Gomer the Closer” (great nickname, Mike Lupica) needs a geography lesson.
Asians and Koreans?
If I wanted smoke blown up my ass, I’d be at home with a pack of cigarettes and a short length of hose.
Hey, ConMan, could you get out your civics book from high school and explain precisely what bearing the Bill of Rights would have on whether a privately-owned, privately-run organization like Major League Baseball decides to censure its employees for what they say publicly? Thanks.
“It’s my considered opinion you’re all a bunch of sissies!”–Paul’s Grandfather
There’s no way that Rocker is “finished in baseball”.
There are too many teams that need a good closer.
This just makes an attention-getting news story.
Heck, according to the pldennison “Walter Payton” philosophy, Rocker is just a bigot that plays baseball. There are probably 3 or 4 guys in your neighborhood that have said the same or worse. How are his slurs any worse? Heck, we even have Homer…
I have to agree with Krispy in saying there’s no way he’s finished because he has talent. I mean, it seems that anybody with talent can always find some team, somewhere to take him. Drug problem? No big deal, you have a good fastball. Beat up your wife? Eh, we can deal with that as long as you also bash the opposing team’s quarterback with the same passion.
Now, it may be more of a problem in the clubhouse, which he shares with blacks, “foreigners,” etc…
…now if Bobby Bonilla had said it…yeah, he’d be finished…
I don’t know about that, KO; Barkley said some pretty inflammatory stuff during his NBA career, and was never drummed out. I don’t think Rocker will be, either, although he may find some unsavory things done to his locker.
“It’s my considered opinion you’re all a bunch of sissies!”–Paul’s Grandfather
It doesn’t matter whether the Atlanta Braves nor MLB are privately held or publicly held companies. A person should be able to voice their opinions. If the Braves/MLB decide to censure Rocker for his comments, then what a bunch of hippocrites they are!
Hanoi Jane can go to Vietnam and express her feelings on the war, create an international scene and she was not censured. It probably cost her a few choice movie roles, though. Ted Turner can go donate $1B to the United Nations but only with a little known stipulation that the money can not be spent on abortions. That is his opinion and I imagine if it were more widely known, TBS would be picketed by women’s rights groups.
Rocker voiced his opinion. I am not agreeing with him nor am I defended him. As I said earlier, he is just showing off his ignorance. But I served my country so that he and others have the right to say what they feel without the fear of being tossed into prisons or worse.
Rocker will probably suffer from lack of run support or defense behind him, his ERA will inflate and either he will be traded or sent to the minors where hopefully some one will give him a blanket party.
“Quoth the Raven, ‘Nevermore.’”
E A Poe
So, in other words, you don’t understand that the First Amendment has no bearing on how a corporation handles behavior by its employees. That’s all I wanted to know–thanks.
“It’s my considered opinion you’re all a bunch of sissies!”–Paul’s Grandfather
Yeah, Phil. I mean, I’m sure the Coca Cola Company wouldn’t mind at all if one of their employees started saying publicly that Pepsi is better. I mean, if they fired the guy or took any kind of action, that would just show how they are hypocrites. Jeez, don’t you know anything?!
The entire country suffers the same heartbreaks of disease, poverty, disenfranchised teens, and isolated minorities that New York does; I think John Rocker has simply been caught in a misguided attempt to slight New Yorkers by assigning exclusive ownership of these and other societal ills to NYC. I believe his claim that he is not a racist.
Rocker can be surprisingly articulate when he allows his brain to catch up to his mouth. His considered, balanced delivery during World Series interviews forced an immediate reassessment of my half-ape image of him.
That said, I think if Leo Mazzoni says he’s finished, he’s finished … at least in the Braves organization. No way a pitcher stays in Atlanta without Leo’s support–even a closer of Rocker’s caliber.
I am currently in a supervisory position and have been for 18 years. You only discipline for two things: Work performance - low output, mishandling of goods, errors in accounting/inventory, etc. - and/or work habits - unexcused absences/tardiness, not in uniform, drinking on duty, etc. How is voicing one’s displeasure over riding NYC’s subway system negatively affecting the company’s product? Did Rocker toss too many bean balls? Give up too many HRs? Was he late for warm-ups? Was he wearing a Pirates uniform?
Now, if he said something about Ted Turner, maybe then you would have an arguement. But haven’t we all hated our boss at one time or another? If my employee work record is spotless, are you going to fire me/trade me/disipline me for voicing my opinion? I would think not. But since MLB baseball has displined others in the past - Marge Scott and the guy w/ the Dodgers whose name escapes me - I am sure that some form of punishment will befall Rocker.
“Quoth the Raven, ‘Nevermore.’”
E A Poe
So you wouldn’t discipline a worker for vicious insults to customers or potential customers?
Livin’ on Tums, Vitamin E and Rogaine
pldennison wrote:
No, but Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (as amended) sure as heck does.
The truth, as always, is more complicated than that.
The Braves have every right to get rid of him. Depending on his contract, I am not sure about if they will have to pay him if they fire him or not.
He should not have said what he said and it will be hard for him to get along with other team mates on any team.
He said it, it was stupid, now he pays the price.
Jeffery