What a great site! She captures my sentiments exactly, nurse everywhere and nurse discreetly.
Titties in public? Count me in.
" “Obviously improper place like a restaurant or front row of a theatre” What’s so obviously improper about it? Perhaps the mother feeding her child is completely indifferent to what you or anyone else thinks and is simply feeding her child and doesn’t see the need to “remove” herself from your sight?"
Oh purleeze, does this mean I get to do whatever I want too? There are many many things that people don’t want to see other people doing in public, just as there are many things that people don’t find objectionable at all. Breastfeeding straddles the boundary between the two and the mother needs to decide if it is worth making some people uncomfortable and risk upsetting them, if only a little, for this particular freedom? Common sense ought to prevail and, as Leslie said, just be discreet. Interestingly enough, I have seen breast-feeding cause embarrasement in places where things such as topless sunbathing and the like are absolutely acceptable; perhaps its because breastfeeding puts something sexual together with something totally non-sexual?
It only hurts when I laugh.
If you are equating the act of breastfeeding in public with anarchy, then I guess you can do anything you want…perhaps looting would balance your moral scales. What did you have in mind? What have you been dying to do in public, but didn’t do because of your consideration for others?
I’d like to hear of your topless sunbathing experience. The image amuses me to no end. Is it a couple of guys admiring the scenery when they chance upon a mother breastfeeding and go, “Eeeewwww!! How embarrassing!” Or, is it two women strolling along the beach topless when they come across the same scene and go, “How disgusting! Has she no shame?”
The worst case breast feeding scenarios being created here are being used as ammunition against BFiP when those cases are mostly rare and very imaginative.
While discussing this with a chap at a bar I learned that he did not like to see it either. He went on though, he was completely grossed out by watching fat people eat…hhhmmmm, what a dick.
On the contrary, my moral scales are fully balanced, they only get out of kilter when people are “completely indifferent to what you or anyone else thinks”. Unless you live on the moon, you will be around other people for much of your time, and showing a little consideration about what others think and feel isn’t a bad thing.
It only hurts when I laugh.
Hmmm. How do your moral scales get put out of balance when I am indifferent to what others, including you, think? That really doesn’t make any sense to me and I’d be obliged for clarification.
Certainly not. But it’s not something I can waste much energy on unless we are talking about people I know personally and respect. I simply do not have the time or energy or desire to concern myself in any way with the thoughts, feelings or opinions of people I do not know. First of all because there are simply too many possibilities to try and consider all of them, and secondly because I have already determined for myself what is fair, moral, healthy, satisfying and right for me. I have already determined that people I like, respect and admire are in perfect agreement with me about these things (as a general rule). Therefore, I conduct myself in ways which reflect this self-knowledge and confidence. And if someone has a problem with it, I don’t care. And I can be relatively certain that I lose nothing by not caring, because me and that person are probably not on the same wavelength to begin with.
As it happens, I am a person who is often outside the mainstream in the ways in which I view the world, in what I think is good, fair, right, correct, acceptable, whatever. And having lived with that reality for 41 years, (And yes, it has been refined and shaped a great deal along the way) I’m completely comfortable with it. I know out the gate that I don’t have much respect for most people, and most people are surprised by me, some even made uncomfortable. But most of the time, I am liked and respected. Even admired.
My high school years were a real eye-opening experience for me. I was very tall, very heavy, very smart, very funny, and in some ways very odd. As a result, I was also ridiculed, reviled, humiliated and shunned by 95% of my schoolmates. I was a joy to my English teachers, whom I liked and respected, and a pain in the ass to my PE teachers, whom I didn’t care about. And eventually, I ended up making a circle of close friends who were, interestingly, among the most intelligent, funny, attractive and interesting people in school. Some were even among the most popular. They are some of my dearest friends to this day. So I look around my life and see who DOES like me, who ARE my friends, who DOES approve, and I feel great. You can tell a great deal about a person by the quality of their friends, and by that measure I’m in great shape.
So I’m more than ok with not spending an ounce of energy worrying about what most people think or feel. Life is far too short. Fuck 'em.
We do precision guesswork
First, on the side issue of whether breasts are sexual:
-
Prepubescent girls don’t have breasts. Prepubescent girls can’t get pregnant.
-
Men don’t have breasts. Men can’t get pregnant.
Notice a pattern?Since the whole point of mens’ sex drive is to impregnate someone, and breasts are a good (not perfect, but good) indicator for whether someone can be impregnated, I really don’t see why people are so surprised that men find breasts sexually stimulating. I don’t see much of a double standard; men’s chests don’t have any sexual significance, other than the absence of breasts.
Back to the main issue:
Even though an interest in breasts is, IMO, a perfectly natural facet of male sexuality, our culture does its best to make men ashamed of this interests, and to make sure that no male is comfortable viewing a breast. Viewing breastfeeding therefore goes against lifelong conditioning. You may say, well, that’s their problem. What does that mean? As long as something doesn’t bother me, anyone who is bothered by it is out of luck? That seems extremely insensitive to me. As insensitive as saying “This building isn’t wheelchair accessible? That’s okay. I’m not in a wheelchair. It’s not my problem.”
I’m not saying that women shouldn’t breastfeed in public. But they shouldn’t dismiss other people’s objections to it as simply “silliness”. Most of all, they should not, as Stoidela did, imply that those that are not as comfortable with breastfeeding as them, and aren’t therefore on the same “wavelength”, are unworthy of any kind of respect and “fuck ‘em”. Perhaps Stoidela’s statements were not meant to be as hostile as my paraphrase makes them out to be, but they certainly can be interpreted that way. If you’re only friends with people who agree with you, and never take other people’s feelings into account, I’m surprised that you have *any[i/] friends.
My signature seems especially appropiate here.
" ‘Ideas on Earth were badges of friendship or enmity. Their content did not matter.’ " -Kurt Vonnegut, * Breakfast of Champions *
Were not talking about defending the right to free speech here; is it really possible that you have lived the last years with absolutely no difference of opinion with any of your chosen friends, have they done nothing at all you didn’t like, that made you think that perhaps they weren’t right thinking folk like yourself and perhaps given you an excuse to ignore what they think too? Nobody is disputing the fact that a woman “can” breastfeed in public, but is it always appropriate? Hell, if it is alright to breastfeed anytime, anywhere, regardless of what others may feel about it, then I guess I can eat with my mouth open, drop litter, push ahead of other people in queues, scratch myself in public and pass gass in elevators, what do I care what anybody else thinks, they ain’t no friends of mine. There isn’t a law against passing gas in an elevator, but I don’t do it. Not because it pleases me, but because most people, including me, think its a little unpleasant. Likewise it would be nice for others to have the same respect for my senibilities as I do for theirs.
It only hurts when I laugh.
Moonshine:
Of course not. But all such differences have been very superficial. We share a core belief system and world view - that is why we are friends, partly.
Nope. Not that I can recall offhand. And I look to my friends to be straight with me when they disagree with somethng I’m doing, and they are. I respect them and look to them for guidance when I am unsure, and they to me. I trust their judgment. They have been known to bust me bigtime when they think I need it. This only increases my affection and respect for them.
You know what this question actually is? “Is it always approrpiate to feed a hungry baby naturally and healthfully?” And my answer would be a resounding, unqualified YES OF COURSE!
Now if the question were: “Is it always approrpiate to casually pull your tit out of the top of yoru shirt, thoughtlessly flop it around, spurting milk everywhere and asking everyone to examine the child latching on and sucking.” Well, no, don’t be silly. Breastfeeding ITSELF is always appropriate,always ok, always natural and good, everywhere all the time that it is alright to have an infant around in the first place. There are ways that it can and should be done discreetly, in a way that doesn’t announce itself, and that’s really all that should ever be required.
Sure you can. But here’s the question you have to ask: Do I feel good about myself eating with my mouth open? Do I think it’s ok to drop litter? Do I think it’s ok to scratch myself and push in line and fart freely?
For me, the only way anyone can shame me is by pointing out things I am already ashamed of or embarassed or offended by. Personally, I find farts really gross. I am grossed out by other people’s farts, and embarassed FOR them, and I am grossed out and embarassed for myself at my own. On the other hand, I completely understand and relate to the following ditty:
“Better to fart and bear the shame than not to fart and bear the pain.” so I dont’ judge anyone who does so, and require only that they say “excuse me”. I pretty much avoid doing it in front of anyone because I don’t like doing it.
ALl the things you mention are rude, or destructive or gross. None of them is on the same level as breastfeeding a child. But if you felt ok about doing all of them, I would form my judgments and you could care or not. The only one that I would be in any position to protest is cutting in front in line. Then you are breaking the rules and intrufing on my rights. Actually, same holds true in a larger sense for littering. But all the others are jsut gross behaviors that if you are cool with them, it’s your business.
And don’t kid yourself, either. You do not refrian from these behaviors because of your profound respect for other people’s sensibilities. It’s because you disapprove of the behaviors yourself, or you are grossed out yourself, or you simply don’t wish to turn people against you. It’s not because you “respect” diddly. My guess, and I feel secure in this, is that you AGREE with the rudeness, grossness or destructiveness of these behaviors. You are not going against your own desires or beliefs by refraining from them.
We do precision guesswork
You are right, I don’t do any of the above things, though as much because I don’t want other people to do them around me as because I think they are ugly.
Well, there ya go!
I think we all do or dont’ do based on our own belief systems more than we think we do. I very much doubt that there are hoards of people out there just yearning to behave badly in myriad ways, but they restrain themselves exclusively because they are sensitive to others. We do what serves ourselves. Fortunately, what serves most people is to behave in ways that others generally do not find objectionable.
I still think breastfeeding should be kept private.
All I’ll say is, if women have the right to breastfeed in public, men should have the right to gawk.
I’m not flying fast, just orbiting low.
Moonshine:
Then by all means, you should hide yourself while you breastfeed. And you should feel free to be judgmental of others who do not feel as you do.
However, don’t expect anything.
We do precision guesswork