Wow. I can barely even wrap my mind around the immense stupidity surrounding this comment. Just…wow.
The fact that you equate breastfeeding with masturbation makes me wonder if someone doesn’t have a wee bit of a Mommy issue…Oedipus, anyone?
Apparently, that was his little brother. Incubus has now learned several things about secure computing, and also learned that he can’t trust his little brother. Sad, really.
Some general thoughts on breastfeeding:
I did it with my daughter until she was just over a year old. She was violently allergic to cow and goat milk. She was so allergic, in fact, that kissing her after drinking milk would cause an angry rash to appear on her skin. I didn’t really trust soy formulas for an infant’s sole nutrition. When I weaned her to a cup, she DID drink soy formula/soy milk until she outgrew her milk allergy, but that was in addition to her other foods and her vitamins.
ANY doctor or dietician will tell you that nutritionally, breast milk is the best for a baby, though there are good formulas out there. Breast milk is the ideal nutrition, and it comes in the ideal package. I’m not a nursing Nazi, but I do feel that many women don’t really try hard enough.
Pumping breast milk is a pain. I was never able to express very much at all. I was also never really able to get my daughter to nurse from a bottle, though I was advised to give her water during the San Antonio summer so that she wouldn’t get dehydrated. She’d take a pacifier, but she knew that liquids came from Mama.
It’s a lot easier to prepare breast milk for an infant’s consumption. Just clean the nipples! It’s easier to feed a baby, too. I’ve had enough experience babysitting that I know how to give a baby a bottle. Breastfeeding is a lot simpler.
If Daddy feels left out, he can always change diapers, bathe baby, or otherwise play with the infant. My husband has his faults, but he DID do a lot of the child care, and he was an excellent daddy.
Cloth diapers are not as difficult to manage as some people make them out to be. Diaper services are nice, though.
I’ll grant that it can be a bit bothersome to have to be accessible to the baby every few hours, but that’s what being a parent is ABOUT.
I have no facts to back this up, but I firmly believe that breastfeeding is good for a baby emotionally, too, as Mom HAS to be next to baby (it’s possible to nurse lying down). I see entirely too many babies with bottles propped up, and who live in baby carriers. Humans are supposed to carry their babies in their arms, for the most part! Watch monkeys/apes with their babies. The infants will be clinging to mom or some other adult most of the time.
There are many benefits to breastfeeding, even past a year. I am currently nursing my 2 1/2 yo, and my almost 1 yo. It is a challenge, but I wouldn’t change it for the world. My 2 1/2 yo son still needs his mother. One day he won’t. It is situations like the one in the OP that make me not nurse my son in public anymore. He nurses about once a day at home and is on his way toward weaning.
Nursing helps with speach skills since the way a child nurses helps the jaw and facial muscles grow.
It helps the mother to lose the baby weight for most women.
It is FREE. It doesn’t require much preparation or extra work.
Anyone can look up La Leche League International for more info.
It saddens me that this country allows men to gawk at nude or nearly nude women on their lunch break at the local topless bar, but a picture of a woman nursing her child is wrong.
Melissa
I found this public service advertisement published in Spain circa 1940. The caption says “Mother, by breastfeeding your child you fulfill a sacred duty and you shield him from great dangers”. Those years were probably the most prudish regarding anything related to sex but breastfeeding was seen as a very natural thing which was routinely done in public.
I realize that this thread has gone from a very upsetting news story to a warm, pro-breastfeeding happy place, but I need to add my thoughts anyway.
The “can’t eat near breastfeeding mothers” crowd can just kiss my ass while they go to Hooters. As previously stated: that’s what they’re for, morons, try to grow up. We are mammals.
As a currently nursing mom of a nine-month-old, it’s hard. It’s a lot of sacrifice, in time, in energy, in taking shit from the mother-in-law who thinks that bottle-feeding “with a little cereal in it” at two weeks old is a great fucking idea.
You know, I enjoy nursing my child so much that I think I’ll go take some photos to remember how special this time is. I think that I’ll have them developed at Wal-fucking-mart (HA! As if!) and really tempt the gods to have my child taken away for months if not years.
Yeah. Right. Luckily I have a digital camera, and I don’t have to play the odds. I just have to weep quietly and hope that this nation turns a corner when the current batch of breastfed children grows up and is glad that their health is better because Mom put up with the bullshit and nursed them.
Just a small note. I have noticed that many posters consistently refer to the “men” who are the ones opposed to breastfeeding. I have seen the comment “certain men”, or “immature men” are against breast feeding in public.
I feel it prudent to point out that although I have no problem with a woman who DISCREETLY breast feeds in public, my wife is displeased with it. Her beliefs are her own and her right. Why does the right of the one always have to outweigh the other? In other words, why does the right to breast feed in public have to be more important than the right of my wife to be free of seeing people breast feed in public? I realize one side must win out, but that does not make her opinion (that she does not like it) immature, stupid or ignorant. Those who resorted to petty insults proved this despite their stance on this issue.
In my wife’s defense, I don’t think she would ever call breast feeding pornographic, nor does she think it should be banned in public. I assume she feels that sometimes people do it very rudely without respect for those around them.
I just think that in public, we should have to respect many different things, including many practices we do not agree with. In addition, however, we are consumed in this culture with the “I’m special” phenomenom and we believe that everyone should accept what we think is right. The dichotomy of majority rule, minority rights is one that will plague our society for all time, because their is no possible end to the debate.
But, my main point is to request that we lay off of the male bashing because on one or two people, who happen to be male, express displeasure. It hinders your argument because it demonstrates bias. In fact, I would say resorting to sexist stereotypes in a debate is immature. I am sure it was not intentional.
Just, do not assume that just because a woman can breast feed, she thinks it is ok to do so in public.
“Mr. Lissa”
People do a lot of things in public in a manner which is rude and inappropriate. Smokers walk down the sidewalks spewing smoke and waving lit cigarettes around. Teenagers make out at the mall. People talk loudly on their cell phones and snap and pop gum and slurp coffee.
The difference is that none of that is necessary. A baby eating, however, is necessary. A breastfed baby eats, on average, every two hours. The options are keeping breastfeeding mothers and their children cloistered at home until weaning, forcing women to run off and hide or acting like mature adults and recognizing that there is nothing bizarre, gross, rude, inappropriate, unpleasant or unsuitable about a baby being fed – whether its by bottle or breast.
All it is is eating, people. A baby eating. How can this be troublesome?!?!
People do a lot of things in public in a manner which is rude and inappropriate. Smokers walk down the sidewalks spewing smoke and waving lit cigarettes around. Teenagers make out at the mall. People talk loudly on their cell phones and snap and pop gum and slurp coffee.
The difference is that none of that is necessary. A baby eating, however, is necessary. A breastfed baby eats, on average, every two hours. The only options to dealing with the issues are keeping breastfeeding mothers and their children cloistered at home until weaning, forcing women to run off and hide or acting like mature adults and recognizing that there is nothing bizarre, gross, rude, inappropriate, unpleasant or unsuitable about a baby being fed – whether its by bottle or breast.
All it is is eating, people. A baby eating. How can this be troublesome to normal adults, especially those who, presumably, eat whenever and wherever they are when they are hungry and where eating is permissible?!?!
I’d like to clarify what my husband, “Mr. Lissa” said in the above post.
I have no problem with public breast-feeding per se, only with the way that some do it. In my mind, there’s a difference between whipping out a naked breast and discretely laying a blanket over the shoulder to feed the baby in semi-privacy.
I’ve seen examples of both. I was embarassed when a woman I was at dinner with in a resturant pulled up her shirt, and clamped an infant to her naked breast. My sister-in-law, on the other hand, lays a baby blanket over her shoulder and feeds her baby beneath it. When she does this, I don’t feel uncomfortable at all.
Perhaps it’s just prudish modesty on my part, but I feel that a little discretion should be used when breast-feeding in public.
I breastfed in public for the first time last week. It was not discreet. I don’t have much choice in the matter. At a bra size of 48L, my breasts are big enough that I cannot hold my daughter in my arms to nurse her.
So far I have 3 options:
- Nurse lying on my side.
- Nurse with someone else holding her in position.
- Lay her on a table, sit at the table, lay my breast on the table and nurse.
I use the first option at home most of the time. Generally since nursing is so difficult if I can’t lie down, I have been feeding her breastmilk with a syringe or eye dropper when out and about. I do this at home as well if she can’t or won’t nurse, but is still hungry.
Also, when she is fully latched on my areola shows. Funny, she can’t seem to get it all, or even more than half in her mouth. I need both hands on my breast most times, to hold the nipple where she needs it and the other to keep her nose clear. I also cannot cover her with a blanket once latched because I need to verify visually that her nose is clear and her latch is good. As she grows stronger, this won’t be as much of an issue, but right now it is.
Last week, I covered the table with a receiving blanket and used the third option at Arby’s. We had left the milk in the car and she seemed to need the comfort of breastfeeding as well. She latched on well, and what had started as a quick stop for bathroom and a soda, turned into all three adults buying dinner and eating while Loren had her dinner too. No one bothered us or made an issue of it. No, I was not discreet at all, and I will probably never be.
In society we must make certain concessions for others in a public space. I do not see how breast feeding exempts anyone from this. It would have been nice if you would have gone to the car to get the milk. I realize that many of you will jump on this about the whole breast feeding is natural and necessary thing, but if, as you pointed out, no one was eating before you started, I don’t see why going to the car to get the milk would have been too much for you to consider. Just because nobody said anything to you, does not mean that those around you may have been uncomfortable. It may have been a gracious act on their part not to intrude on your comfort. In addition, is it not possible to cover up your large breast on the table. I understand you may need the support, but you could still cover it up.
Just remember what I said earlier, everybody thinks that they are right. However, this does not absolve us of the responsibility to try and take into consideration other peoples’ comfort. As one poster pointed out, people do things all the time that others do not like. However, the proliferation of these acts should not be the excuse.
I have no problems with breast-feeding, and can easily imagine why being cooped up is bad for mom, but why would it be bad for the baby? Unless you mean mom’s mental health my affect baby’s treatment, I can’t figure out why avoiding germy strangers would be bad for a little one.
Mr. Lissa, so long as breastfeeding infants in public is legal, nursing mothers have no obligation, social, moral, or otherwise, to make you feel comfortable. To put it roughly, I simply don’t care about your comfort or your personal opinions regarding female modesty. If my child needs food, and that food happens to come from my breasts, I’m going to deliver it to him without a thought to what a random stranger feels about it. Sorry, but you are not “special.”
On that same note, it seems that someone always has to march into a breastfeeding thread and announce that they have witnessed a woman flagrantly whip out a bare breast to feed their child in a social situation and that while they have no problem with breastfeeding, in general, this particular woman made them feel embarrassed. As I have never, ever, seen a mother nurse her child in a way that has made me feel embarrassed, I’m genuinely confused. To be embarrassed by “immodesty” requires a social context wherein a person observes a second person engaging in a shameful act. I’m going to go out on a limb here and assume that breastfeeding is well within what most people consider normal standards of decency. Since breastfeeding is not shameful, since a nursing mother doesn’t expose her bare breasts to titillate or embarrass others, why should anyone feel self-conscious? Help me out here.
Doing that would have delayed getting milk to the baby for at least five and probably more like ten minutes, as the milk in the car was on ice and would have needed to be warmed, a slow process without a warmer other than body heat available. During which time she would have been crying. I’m sure the other patrons would have preferred a screaming baby to a quiet baby nursing at mother’s breast. :rolleyes:
I will make reasonable accomodations for other people’s comfort. However, I stress the word “reasonable”. Some people are made uncomfortable by two women behaving affectionately toward one another in public (that is, holding hands). I will not accomodate this “preference” any more than I expect a nursing mother to respect the “preference” of certain closeminded individuals not to see a nursing mother at work. These preferences are socially unhealthy and need not be respected.
Just because you’d prefer not to see a thing does not mean you’re entitled to demand not to see it. If your preferences are bigoted, unreasonable, or interfere with necessary or socially favorable activities, they will fall by the wayside. Breastfeeding is a socially favorable activity (having healthy children are a social good, and breastfeeding definitely furthers it), and as such barriers to it are socially harmful and should be ignored.
You are entitled to your preference; you are not entitled to see it respected.
The whole “breasts are dirty” thing is stupid in its entirety.
Breasts exist to nurse. Female people have them.
a) Therefore if a mom is in public and baby needs to nurse, then nurse. There should be fewer restrictions on it than there are on an adult’s right to eat a cookie in public – the adult is better equipped to wait.
b) Quite aside from nursing issues, female people should have no more and no fewer restrictions imposed upon them than are imposed upon men regarding coverage or lack thereof of their upper torso. I do not blame the many women who would feel totally uncomfortable going about sans shirt, but then I don’t do it as a male very often either. But do get over the “female torsos are obscene” act, folks.
c) Your right to restrict other folk’s conduct on the ground that it makes you uncomfortable should always be subject to much tighter scrutiny than a person’s right to behave as they feel comfortable behaving. They don’t have to justify. You do. The hospital has sufficient justification to insist that I not honk my car horn except in emergency situations. The theatre owners have sufficient justification to insist I not holler “fire” unless something is burning. In some district of California, it was only recently formally decided that people may not go about stark naked, based in part on sanitary issues (“what about when they sit down? do you want to sit down after them on the same park bench?”). Where’s the justification for restricting a mom’s right to breastfeed in public?
Once again ladies and gentlemen, I have no problem with breast feeding in public. I am glad that you were not embarrased by any situations. That had nothing to do with my point. My point was simple, some people do not like women breastfeeding with their mammary glands laying out in the open. It would be nice if breast feeding mothers took this into account and simply covered their breasts. That is all.
And, to illustarte my point, I will tell you a story. We were in a nice sit down restauraunt. A woman had multiple children around her that she did nothing to control, by the way. A child, about 2, said they wanted “titty”. Mom whipped open her shirt , exposed her breast (fully) and the kid leaned across the table and started feeding. Then, a three year old said I want “titty” too. She exposed the second breast and let the other one lean across the table. Both children had solid food in front of them. The woman sat there, whole front exposed with two children sucking on her breasts in the middle of a restauraunt. I find that alittle objectionable. If you do not agree, sorry.
She made not have attempted to excite any one around her, but I think there were about 90% of the patrons who were uncomfortable. They just had enough decency and respect for others beliefs not to say anythign directly to her, although you could hear the mumbling.
The problem I have with the ‘Just cover up with a blonket’ folks is this:
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Do you like to eat with a blanket over your head? Neither does my baby.
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It’s hot and hard to breathe when one’s head is covered by a blanket.
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When the baby is just a few months old, they love to look around. In my experience, they’ll just pull off the blanket anyway.
I just don’t see why this is a big deal. Some people have hang-ups about this. Others have hang-ups about seeing inter-racial couples. We can’t always bend to satisfy everyone’s hang-ups. Nor should we.
Once again, my point exactly. Breast feeding, in public is OK. I have no problem with it. It is simply about having SOME respect for others. I don’t see how asking a person to cover their breasts is interefering with a “socially favorable activity”. If you can tell me how this simple gesture of concern for others is hindering the delivery of food to a child, I will be happy to accept it.
sigh. I never said to cover up the baby. I mentioned covering up the breast. Look, I understand your statements and I agree with 99% of your arguments. My wife pointed out that my sister-in-law, covers up her breast, except for the necessary parts, and then the baby’s mouth covers up the rest. You do not have to hide the baby, or even the reality of what is going on. Just simply try and reduce the amount of breast exposed. Personally, I do not care if the woman takes off her whole shirt and lets the baby feed. But others do care about that and I felt that there should be some level of respect shown to thier beliefs. I have heard people say since it is legal, who cares about others. IMHO, that is one of the major problems with people in society. The belief that just because it is legal, I can do it and it is my right and I have to respect no one else.
Yes, it is legal to treat people like garbage, make waitress’ feel like scum, not bathe, talk loudly, flatulate in public (really smelly ones that clear out a room), and burp loudly in public. These are all legal things to do, but common courtesy has pushed many of us to refrain from these activities, or at least try to cover them up, out of respect for the comfort of those around us.
So, in conclusion, as this will be the last post because I cannot explain the point further:
- I have NO PROBLEM with breastfeedng in public.
- You do not have to smother the baby.
- Breastfeeding is natural and an important part of raising children, if you so choose.
- We have the right to do almost anything in a free society, but we should engage in courtesy when in public places. How you personally choose to do this is your own decision.